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Here is what could be an interesting topic. What do you believe happens to "us" after we die?

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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Let's face it. From the moment we are born we are starting our journey towards death. There are many thoughts on what happens to our spirit/soul/energy/essence/being, whatever you wish to call it, after we die. Do you believe in Heaven and Hell, reincarnation, transfer of energy to another dimension, something else, or are you just DEAD?
I think this can be an interesting topic for everyone's thoughts.
-phil

August 22, 2009: Just an update. I'm very happy that so many people responded and that many have found this to be an interesting topic. This is more than I had hoped for when I created this thread. I'm also VERY happy that CSN decided to create this space for us to talk about topics like these since most of us have had a brush with our own mortality.
Thanks again to everyone who has posted here
-phil

RE's picture
RE
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It is in Mark 15:34 where Jesus say's And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani which is, being interpreted, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" this time of year it is mentioned and discussed in many churches as a time when Jesus truly showed his human side as we all have moments of weakness because we are Human as he was while on the cross. He also showed his human self while in the Garden of Gethsemane when in Mark 14:36 it states "And he said, Abba, Father, all things [are] possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt." He so wanted God to say okay my son you do not have to go through with this. However, in the end as he took his last breath as stated in Luke 23:46 "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost." So in the end his questions passed and his faith prevailed as he placed his soul in God's keeping to rise on the third day and ascend into the Heavens according to the Bible which is what my faith is based upon.

I guess that is the Easter Story (minus the ever popular bunny part) in a nutshell. Yes Jesus had his moments of weakness and yes if you are a believer in scripture he prevailed. Okay I know most of you hate scripture quoting and I do it so rarely but hey tis the season.

My best to you all I shall now step down from my soap box, ;-)

RE

Hondo's picture
Hondo
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I would like to express what I think as to why Jesus said “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me.

I don’t see Jesus doubting who he is while being on the cross; I believe this is where a deeper study of the Bible is needed to understand why Jesus said what he said.

If you look at what John the Baptist said about Jesus in John 1:29 Behold the Lamb of God, what was John reason for expressing this? Look at what he said; Jesus was the one, which take away the sin of the world.

In Jesus days a Lamb was sacrifice in behalf of the sinner, transferring the sins from the guilty to the innocent. That Lamb represented Jesus who would take the Sins of all men and die the death that we deserve. Ezek 18:4 said the soul that sinneth, it shall die. Jesus took that death for all who put there faith in Him as our savior he took our Sins.

What separates us from God, Sin correct? So if Jesus took our Sins then he felt what separation from the Father was like and so cried out. Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me. Not because he was week or doubted but because it was what he came to do, Die for all who put there faith in him.

Great study question; take care

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RE
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Hello Hondo,

In my lifetime I have been to many sermons on this topic and have heard both of our views preached, it is what speaks to you that matters for you. By the way I did not mean to say Jesus doubted who he was he simply felt abandoned at the moment in his life when he needed his father the most (of course he was not abandoned, as a child I am sure you had like moments and perhaps even as an adult). He got past that and followed through with what he knew was required of him so that he could carry our sins for us as the bridge from him to our Lord.

My Best to You and Happy Easter,

RE

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mariam_11_09
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I was watching the movie 'A Taste of Cherry' with my daughter. It is about a man who is driving around Tehran trying to find someone who will bury him after he commits suicide. He picks up a man who had been studying in a seminary and the man told him it is a sin to kill oneself. My daughter asked me 'what is sin?'

Hondo, I am very curious to know how you as a Christian define sin.

And what also defines suicide? If one refuses treatment is that suicide?

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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A definition I found online that defines it fairly well for me:
"People who commit suicide deliberately kill themselves because they do not want to continue living."

I don't think that refusing chemo is suicide. I think it's a choice of how one wants to live their life.

I'll leave the sin question alone...
-phil

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mariam_11_09
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Someone I knew who had malaria (Falciparum - the one if you don't treat you are certain to die) out in the boondocks in West Africa. This person said to me, if I die, it is not because of the malaria alone it is because I want to. No-one will think it is suicide, they will say what a shame, he died of malaria. So I have to make choice.

He did make a choice and we did get him to clinic a couple of days after he should have died, the doctors were amazed he was still alive. He lives today.

I am really not saying, that refusing chemo or if one dies from cancer it is a death wish. However it did get me to think different and more deeply about my own desire to live and how I want to live, particularly with regards to my own cancer.

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Hondo
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As a Christian I have to use the Bible definition of what sin is as defined In 1 John 3:4 Sin is the transgression of the law, I find only one law in the Bible, Gods law. So to me as a Christian Sin is the transgression of the Gods law. Please understand that the law can’t save you by keeping it, it is only a teacher to show what Sin is. Revelations 14:12 tells me that here is the patience of the saints, here are they that keep the commandments of God, so Gods commandments are his Laws and they tell me what sin is.

On Suicide, again I can only define it from the Bible. Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill correctly understood Thou shalt not murder. Murder is the intent to cause bodily harm to someone or to ones self. Not all suicides are murder; people kill them self’s for all kinds of reason, like depression no intent to murder there just a feeling of hopelessness, despair, desperation.

I don’t believe suicide is refusing to take treatment because from the day of our birth we start dying that is part of live. I have refusing treatment when my cancer came back a third time, but I am not sitting here waiting to die I am doing every thing I can to help my bodies immune system stay strong and help fight the cancer. So if I die I don’t die because I refused chemo treatment I die because I have cancer, hope this helps.

Take care and keep posting

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RE
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Hello Lisa, I tried to understand what you are enduring but on your site here there are no comments, blogs or expressions so in that area I am a bit in the dark. I do hope that whatever your battles are that you will have better day's ahead.

I do very much believe in Heaven and I know someday I will be there with my Mom and Sister who have gone before me along with other loved ones and of course my Lord. However, I have two adult children who still can learn from my life's lesson's as well as 3 beautiful grandchildren I love with a passion and a husband who I cannot even express how much I love him. Simply because one know's Heaven exists is not a reason to give up on the life we have here and simply say okay no chemo for me let me die. My passing would cause a great deal of suffering in this family as I am the Mom and I love them all. I will fight to remain here as long as I can, when God calls me home home I shall go until then I will be My Guy's Wife, a Mom, Grandma, Sister, Daughter, Auntie, Friend to those I love and that love me.

RE

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PhillieG
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This post won't die! I'm glad to see it's still being discussed.

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Hondo
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That is because it is a very good tread and a lot of people of all aspect in life believe in something or nothing after death.

I am just glad to see it can be discuss with out someone becoming offended or wanted to argu just there point. we are all free to Believe it or Not.

Take care

RE's picture
RE
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Geez guess you are the proud PaPa of the longest going post on this board to date, perhaps congrats are in order. Have a good day Phil, mine shall be filled with doctor appointments...yucko!

RE

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PhillieG
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I hope all of your visits go well today.

It's managed to remain a good post. We all have our own ideas about what may happen to us. If I go first I'll try to sign in from where ever I may be. I should start a thread "Do you believe there is wi-fi in the Hereafter and if so is it VIOS or Cable?"
-phil
What a very happy baby you have there...

RE's picture
RE
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She is my beautiful grand daughter Ava, she is a tiny little one 9 months and only 16 lbs. had her check up today they don't seemed concerned just say she is tiny.

I have always told Joe if I go first and get back I will visit him to give him the proof he needs to believe, so if you'd like I could do the same for you. Now I must add my disclaimer with my luck and the fact that I am a major clutz with a horrible sense of direction I may well get lost or end up somewhere I did not intend to be but heh I am willing to try if I happen to go first.

Okay wish me luck Phil I just listened to the tutorial you sent me (great to hear your voice by the way) and I am going to try to link something to a discussion. Thanks again for taking the time to do that for it was kind of you.

RE

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PhillieG
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I love babies but do NOT need any more now. I can wait for grandkids! Kids have a way of catching up with everyone else in due time. Some people are petite too.

Hopefully they will give everyone GPS devices so you'll do OK. It's a pleasure to share what I know with computers, I'm glad you are going to give it a whirl. If you get stuck, email me.

Hope all goes great today
-p

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soccerfreaks
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And what I always say is that if I go first I will tap on your shoulder once if there is an afterlife, twice if there is not :).

Take care,

Joe

RE's picture
RE
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Yup you are still a goof and I can see by your statement you plan to carry your goofiness into the next realm. Please tap my right shoulder, my left is numb sometimes and I don't want to get the wrong idea..... bye for now Mr. Joe.

RE

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Vulgarism
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We begin to rot, harsh as it may sound. That's about the extent of my own belief.

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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So you believe your spirit or energy just dies along with your body, lights out, shows over, dead as a doornail, no afterlife or anything?

-p
PS: you only rot if you're buried. I'm going for cremation. Being buried takes up too much space too. We need the land so we can build more shopping malls.

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Vulgarism
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Agreed. I would rather be cremated to not be any further a waste on the earth than most already are.

But! No, I don't believe in afterlife, and so forth. Just, caput. :)

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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I'm guessing you are referring to the living, not the dead ;-)

So you think that that's that, no more thoughts...nothing at all?
It's hard for me to imagine but that's me. I don't buy the whole heaven/hell stuff myself. One of most basic laws of science is the Law of the Conservation of Energy. Energy cannot be created or destroyed; it can only be changed from one form to another. That's how I think we are dealt with when the show is over.
Just a possibility I feel.
-phil

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Vulgarism
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Perhaps it's a general apathy I have toward the concept of another life, rebirth or what have you. I figure, if it happens, great, and if not, that's great too.

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mariam_11_09
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I am with you on that one Phil, Law of Conservation of Energy. Haven't bought into heaven/hell either.

I did romanticise about rotting in the ground, putting back into the earth what I had taken out (or at least some of it). But at this point in life would prefer to be cremated after being pumped up on chemo and soon to have radiation because I am sure I would be more of pollutant if I were to rot int he ground.

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PhillieG
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there us something after this life, I don't think it is anything even remotely similar to anything we have experienced here in our lives on earth. I don't think time would exist like it does here. I think that it could get into different levels of consciousness perhaps or plains of being. I think many people think it's just like life was on earth but we are doing something that makes us happy. Maybe I'll be able to play any guitar I want and I would be a virtuoso at it too. Or maybe it's eating fried chicken for eternity? Or maybe that's Hell instead.
;-)

coloCan
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we won't even remember we were alive. All those monuments to themselves built by the powerful since social stratification began millenia ago hasn't changed over the centuries.....its all an attempt at immortality. If we are remembered by the living after we die, so be it, we still won't know about it, in my view . We are not much different than any other living organism, including a cancer cell-all living matter strives to stay alive!!!!Its instinct. What differentiates people from all other life forms is our supposed ability to learn, our ability to communicate, our ability to transform, for better or worse, our environment and that of all other life forms.......Also our ability to create things, to find cures for diseases and every now and then help a fellow human.....steve

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Hondo
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Hell and fried Chicken Well all I can say that will be the place to cook it I guess,

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PhillieG
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or at least keep it warm

DennisR
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I'm afraid there'll only be a Hobson's Choice, Phil. You can choose to play any instrument of your choice, but they're all Harps.

Hondo's picture
Hondo
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You are correct even the Bible said from dust thou art, and unto dust shall thou return or Rot.

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Vulgarism
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Can't say I'm familiar, so I'll take your word for it. :)

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PhillieG
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I am no expert on the bible at all but your comment made me curious about what it says in the bible Hondo. I didn't think there was and "or rot" at the end of Genesis 3:19. Just reading many parts of Genesis 3 makes me realize why I believe what I do but there are so many things that people believe or do not believe. No one will know the true answer in our lifetime. But the laws of nature have to go with rot!
-p

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Hondo
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I am glad to see you have a Bible, there are a lot of things I too don’t believe but I have books on the subject for study purpose.

Correct the word Rot is not there but the meaning of returning to dust implies in order to get back to dust you would have to rot, decay or decompose.

Here is another mystery in the Bible, when you are talking about Death are you talking about the first death or the second death?

According to the Bible there is a vast difference between the two, Revelation 20:6. You would be surprised that a lot of Christians don’t know the different either and many have never heard about it.

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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I'm not sure if we have a bible, I do have the internet so that was how I found the passage. They sure do have many interpretations of what was written back then. I did attend catholic school for 8 years and did retain some of it too.

Personally I think that Science and God can co-exist but not Science and Religion. I do not believe that the bible is the word of God, I think it was most likely man's attempt to understand and explain the world around him along with some wishful thinking thrown in regarding what happens after our physical death. I tend to be more of a science minded guy so I tend to go with the theory that matter or energy can not be created nor destroyed, it only changes form. Of course that does not mean that I may be totally wrong but that is what I believe and also what makes sense to me. The dust to dust passage makes sense to me but this does not. I mean I understand what they are saying but I do not believe in it. I have heard this before. I've retained a lot it seems...
The nuns had a knack with getting kids to learn things.
;-)
Revelation 20:6.
King James Bible
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

My question, what happens after a thousand years or is that not to be taken literally like everything being created in 6 days?

With your last comment, I am NOT surprised at all if many Christians have not heard of it. Many Christians do not act like Christians either. Same goes for the rest of mankind. We certainly are not always "kind".

lcarper2
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that we were all created by the same God and how we deal with that is up to us. I know that in my life I have had things happen to me that could not be explained any other way but that God took control. Believe me when I say it was God cause I am not smart enough to have done some of this stuff on my own.I to believe in spirits and have had them come to me personaly and the bible talke about them and there are good and bad spirits and I have delt with both kinds and that is another thread by it's self. I do believe that when I die I will go to heaven and stand at the thrown and be judged for what I have done here on earth and hope you aren't behind me cause it may take awhile Phil, but we all will be there and have to explain to God. I just got NED from cc and 2 weeks later find out I have a cancerous tumor on my liver bile duct and here we go again.I have made it this far by the grace of God and I will beat this next one the same way. There is no place we can look up how long we will live and I can't find a bar code any where on me that has an experation date...

lcarper2
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does not mention rot but if you read numbers 5 -21 to 27 it explains rot and it is nothing to do with the death we talked about earlier it refers to finding out if a woman has been unfaithful to her husband .

Hondo's picture
Hondo
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You are correct the word rot is not found in Genesis 3:19 just the indirect meaning of returning back to dust from being a living creature.

Take care

Hondo's picture
Hondo
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I too did the 8 years of catholic School, if fact I was at one point in my life going to study to be Priest, but that never happened.

I agree with you on the fact that Science and God can co-exist, when I read the Bible it tells me of things that happened thousands of years ago and I can see the evident of that in the earth today, I have no problems there. As far as Religion it is not going to save anyone anyway so let it slip by. The Bible everyone has the right to believe it or not so again no problem there.

Matter or energy can not be created nor destroyed; Man today can take simple Hydrogen and split the atom and make an atomic H bomb, causing matter to be turned into Energy. I believe it then to be a simple process for someone like God to do just the opposite of Man and turn Energy back into matter and use it to create worlds.

On the question of what happens after the 1000 years. Many people want to explain what they think this means, I rather let the Bible explain it.

Rv:21:1: And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. This old world will no longer exist; God will create a new one after we have finished destroying this one.

Rv:21:10: And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, The people who have put there Faith in God will be living with him. They will be living 1000 years with him before he comes back to re-create this world.

Like I said this is from what I believe will happen as I read it out of a book I believe in, and no wrong to you Phil if you don’t believe in it. I do like your tread's as they more then any make me think and study and that my friend I do appreciate

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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I'm glad you enjoy my threads. I try to give us all some food for thought. I enjoy your comments. It's always interesting to hear what others believe.
-p

DennisR
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If Religion is described as Man's early attempts to understand the World around him with some wishful thinking thrown in...it sounds an awful lot like Modern Science to me.

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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That's funny. I guess that one man's ceiling is another man's floor.
How I see is that science can question things about the universe, then prove or disprove the theories with experiments and testing so they/we understand the world around us. Religion pre-dates science as far as peoples knowledge about the world around them. Religion and Science did not get along at all. It seemed that the RC Church (to name a religion that set many of the rules of the time) had a hard time with many of the ideas that that proven false by science. Men like Copernicus, Galileo, and DaVinci were punished for going against the church...

That was a great comeback Dennis.
-p

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soccerfreaks
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The Roman Catholic church in the last year or so announced some sort of thing (as they do) indicating that they embrace the notion of evolution and an expanding universe, to wit: the notion that science and the church can live together.

Those of us who are skeptical in nature would consider this an attempt to keep the money truck fueled. I am one of them.

Even so, it is a historical development.

That said, from a lay perspective it seems that science and religion would be incompatible, not because of the countering suppositions about creation and so forth, but because from a philosophical perspective they simply cannot be conjoined.

One demands faith and the other insists that faith is not just insufficient but anathema.

How do they resolve that?

Beyond that, and to Dennis' point, we are humanity striving to understand our world and our universe. The establishment of science and its rules, while seemingly logical to me, does not mean that science is right.

On the other hand, to refute science is to go back to the Dark Ages. As someone mentioned in another post on this board with respect to 'widgets', much of what we consider necessary to live, much of what allows us to live longer (and, for those of us on this board, perhaps, to live at all), comes as a direct result of science and its tenets.

Take away everything in your environment, Dennis, that is not a product of the wishful thinking of science, and tell me what is left?

Take care,

Joe

DennisR
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Unfortunately, Joe, not everything that results from either Religion or Science is all for the good of mankind. Odd that you consider yourself to be such a pragmatist when it comes to Religion, yet appear to accept all things "Science" without further consideration with respect to the so called "breakthroughs" effects on the the environment and mankind in general.
Nuclear Energy may be a plus, but Nuclear Weaponry certainly leaves something to be desired..Crop Hybridization may appear to be a boon at face value, but is proving to be a double-edged sword as well in terms of soil depletion, diseases, need for excessive pestacides and fertilizers, and expensive patented seeds, all of which are controlling the prices, quality, and marketing, of the World's food supplies. Wind Farms are destroying a million birds a year now and we only have 1/5 of the number of turbines the administration is planning, what will it be like when they're all on line? Will the wind and solar energy costs still be viable when we stop subsidizing them, I doubt it.
Sure , Joe, I absolutely agree there are a lot of medical advancements being made...and there are a lot of Research Companies and Insurance Companies making fortunes selling them to the sick and hungry of the world. Doesn't seem all that long ago that a shot of Penicillin would cure darn near anything, now it won't cure anything at all.
I suspect that too much of a good thing is a Bad thing when it comes to either Religion...or Science, or medicine, for that matter.
Just sayin'

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Tina Blondek
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Hi Joe and Dennis,
This is the first time I have gone to this site. My eyes are tired from reading so many posts! Great messages you are all expressing. Hi to Phil too, who started this thread. As far as my belief, I believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. I believe in heaven and hell. I believe that there is "something" after death. Not sure exactly what, but there is something, or somewhere we go. Growing up I was baptized Methodist. We hardly ever went to church. Sad, but true. Now that I am in my 40's with my own family, we go to a reformed english anglican church where our daughter goes to school. We learn both the old and new testament. I also agree in cremation. I believe in the resurrection. The one bible verse, I can not quote, but it goes something like from ashes we come, to ashes we return. I know that is not it, but you get my drift. I was never one for quoting bible verses. Anyway...that is my story. Glad to be here, and hope to meet and talk to all of you soon.
Tina

DennisR
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Hi Tina, I've always separated the Spirit from the body, in my mind, and sort of look at it like my body, for better or worse, is just the case I'm spiritually enclosed in. In that sense, what happens to my old living quarters after my Spirit has moved on to some other existance, is of little concern to me
There is some Scientific evidence that the Human Spirit, or Soul, does indeed have an Atomic Weight and has been has been accurately measured and documented as leaving the body at the exact time of Deaths.

dasspears
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but where it goes is the question!

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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they get recycled

dasspears
Posts: 233
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Wonder if I'm plastic #1 or #2?

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
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I saw the author interviewed on night on a TV show. Lisa Miller:
Heaven: Our Enduring Fascination with the Afterlife
I will wait for paperback or for my library to get it. It's interesting because my Aunt passed away the other week and the priest who said a few words at the wake (since the catholic church will not allow eulogies at the services anymore in NJ). The priests words focused on so many material things that I think many sees to believe are in heaven.

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CanadaSue
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Hey Phil,

This is one of the reasons I refuse to go to church: I would give what money I could afford that week, and not what they tell me I have to give,I have heard of different faiths wanting to see your tax return in order to get their percentage. If the Vatican was to sell all the art pieces they have, they could feed a few 3rd world countries for years to come!

Imo so many people are materialistic, but you don't get to take it with you when you go.....

Sorry to hear about your aunt.

Have a great day!

The sometimes cracked egg,

HUGS,

Sue

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Balentine
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that is...if you truly believe what the bible says. Some do and some don't....some believe parts of it and not others. I choose to believe all the bible tells me. It tells me that I am in a restful state in Christ when I die. It tells me that when Jesus returns in the clouds that the dead in Christ will rise first and then those of us that remain alive will meet Him in the air and we will forever be with Him (the rapture). We will receive new glorious bodies like that of our Lord...flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven....there will be a new heaven and a new earth and we will reign as Kings and Priests of our Lord. These are the things the bible says about what will happen when we die and at the end of the age...where we will spend eternity. Be blessed.
Lorrie

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