My employer has "renewed encouragement for you to seek professional help in dealing with the very re
I told him I find the peace I need on this board. From people who are going through the same thing as I am. He rolled his eyes and told me "internet people aren't real people". Pissed me off. OK, maybe online is not for everyone, I get that. But you are all very real to me even though I read way more than I post. Not even my family or girlfriend know what it is like to go through chemo, to try to learn to live without a rectum and good portion of my colon, to deal with this damn neuropathy. At my lowest, when I want to quit, coming here has made me find the "umph" to go on.
I am so pissed off at my boss. He is such a jerk and sticks his nose in where it does not belong all the time. Now I feel like I have to go to therapy! Is this even legal? I do think I am going to speak to an employement attorney after Tuesday. Tuesday is my 12 week CEA test. Last one was not good. This one needs to go down or there will have to be a scan. We're not even sure yet that we can test me with CEA, I'm too soon out of treatment. Waiting is the hardest.
Yes, I may be crazy sometimes. But I get my job done. My non-profit agency is one of the most respected in town and I am very good at my job. Managed to do a good deal of it from home through rough treatment.
OK, needed to vent.
Pam
Comments
-
Sorry
Sorry about your boss. I can imagine what employers and other people think about people that go through these kind of situations. I'm sure they wouldn't handle them well at all but are the first to point out what, where, how we should feel, do, etc.
Don't let anyone force you into therapy or anything else you don't feel you need.
It sound like you are on top of your job and handling what you need to do. It was good you could work from home when need be. Hope he becomes less of a jerk soon.
Kim0 -
Vent away!
Hey Pam,
I think you have every right to vent away... and keep coming back to vent so you can release some of that pent up anger. The nerve of your boss to tell you that he thinks you need "professional help" in dealing with the very real, very fearsome issues.
If I was you, I'd thank him for the offer of paying, but you are dealing with these very real, very fearsome issues and you are surrounded by professional help from your oncologist, your surgeons, your chemo nurses and everyone inbetween. Every single one of them is helping you deal with these very real issues and the last thing you need is yet another "professional" added to the team.
As for his comment that "internet people aren't real people", look him in the eye and ask him, "Have you ever done email? Have you ever gone to a website on the internet to get information about something you are interested in?" Of course, when he answers "yes", then you can say, "So you are telling me that you aren't a real person then?" Of course he will say he is different, that of course he is real, but you don't KNOW those people on that Board you go to. So you can then say, "And you think sending me to a "professional" that I don't know, that is going to charge me for their advice is more real?" This might be a good time to let him know that if someone has not been diagnosed themselves with this particular kind of cancer or been a caregiver to someone who has been through this particular kind of cancer, no matter how helpful they want to be, they have no idea just what a person goes through. To try and help because they think they know, statistics say that people will feel this way or that way, studies show that people will react this way or that way... it's all a bunch of make believe. NO ONE can really know unless they are or have gone through it themselves.
"So again, thank you for your interest and advice, but it really is not the answer for me. I understand where you are coming from and the last thing I would want is for you to have to go through this yourself, but take my word, you have no idea what the real fearsome issues are unless you walk in my shoes."
You certainly handled it a lot better than I would have... I would have torn a strip off of him, which would have given him further proof in his eyes that I needed professional help
The other thing you could say to him is, "Knock it off, buster! You don't really think I'd take advice from the company's nosy busybody, do you??" Then again, that might not be the best thing to say if you want to keep your job LOL!
Huggggggs,
Cheryl0 -
Good Gesture, not the Best Delivery
Hi PamySue,
Being a 51 year old guy who has been dealing with Stage IV colon cancer for over 5 years (never NED either - yet), I have been helped SO much from my therapist. Therapy may not be for everyone. I used to think it was for crazy people until I got cancer and started to become a crazy person. As far as his comment about internet people not being real people, I'd have to agree with that. That does not mean that being on this site, or blogging or facebeook or any of that doesn't have a place in someone's life, but I can honestly say that I have never "met" people as loonie as some I've had the displeasure have been in contact with online. Surprisingly, most everyone here has been helpful and I do not include people living with cancer in the "crazy category". I say the same thing on the other boards about them... ;-)
I certainly have gotten to know some fantastic people here and through other internet means but I have found that none of them come close to how much sitting and talking face to face with the right therapist has been for ME for dealing with cancer. It's just my opinion.
Maybe your boss is butting in but from the little I know of your situation, I think his heart is in the right spot. Maybe his nose isn't. Cancer is a hard thing for many people who are "our friends" to deal with. Some of my friendships with co-workers has gotten stronger and other people won't even talk to me anymore. Am I contagious???
I don't think cancer is a mental health issue at all, it is stressful though and takes it's toll on a person from my experiences. Man, do I know how the need to vent gets too.
That's my 2 cents on it. Vent away but I would not just forget about seeking some help if you feel you need it to cope and it's being offered. Also, you certainly can polity refuse and explain that you are dealing with it OK but thank you for the offer. Many companies are not as thoughtful when it comes to this stuff.
I also started with an anti-depressant and an anti-anxiety medication that has helped me enormously over the past 5 years. It's a **** diagnosis but you have to deal with things with the tools we all have. This board is a great one, the best I've found.
Good luck.
-phil0 -
WTG Phil!PhillieG said:Good Gesture, not the Best Delivery
Hi PamySue,
Being a 51 year old guy who has been dealing with Stage IV colon cancer for over 5 years (never NED either - yet), I have been helped SO much from my therapist. Therapy may not be for everyone. I used to think it was for crazy people until I got cancer and started to become a crazy person. As far as his comment about internet people not being real people, I'd have to agree with that. That does not mean that being on this site, or blogging or facebeook or any of that doesn't have a place in someone's life, but I can honestly say that I have never "met" people as loonie as some I've had the displeasure have been in contact with online. Surprisingly, most everyone here has been helpful and I do not include people living with cancer in the "crazy category". I say the same thing on the other boards about them... ;-)
I certainly have gotten to know some fantastic people here and through other internet means but I have found that none of them come close to how much sitting and talking face to face with the right therapist has been for ME for dealing with cancer. It's just my opinion.
Maybe your boss is butting in but from the little I know of your situation, I think his heart is in the right spot. Maybe his nose isn't. Cancer is a hard thing for many people who are "our friends" to deal with. Some of my friendships with co-workers has gotten stronger and other people won't even talk to me anymore. Am I contagious???
I don't think cancer is a mental health issue at all, it is stressful though and takes it's toll on a person from my experiences. Man, do I know how the need to vent gets too.
That's my 2 cents on it. Vent away but I would not just forget about seeking some help if you feel you need it to cope and it's being offered. Also, you certainly can polity refuse and explain that you are dealing with it OK but thank you for the offer. Many companies are not as thoughtful when it comes to this stuff.
I also started with an anti-depressant and an anti-anxiety medication that has helped me enormously over the past 5 years. It's a **** diagnosis but you have to deal with things with the tools we all have. This board is a great one, the best I've found.
Good luck.
-phil
Ok, trust Phil to come in with a different perspective and one that is very reasonable and thought out. Looking at it from this perspective, it takes on a whole different meaning than when I first read your post, PammySue.
I took it that your boss did not come to you because you were wondering how you could get therapy and whether or not you could afford it. I read the post as the boss came to you and inferred that you needed therapy, that he looked up various therapists that you should go to and that if you couldn't afford it, he would pay for it.... all done without you asking or mentioning that you thought this might be something you needed.
When taken in that light, then I am glad you came here to vent and if I were in your shoes, well you saw what my reaction was . But, as Phil has pointed out, some people get a lot of help from therapists and it is a much needed/wanted service. I have had two experiences where I turned to therapy (not cancer related) in my life... and they were, without a doubt, the worst experiences and a total waste of money (paid for by my medical insurance). So bad that they both have left a very bad taste in my mouth... so when I read that it sounded like your boss insisted on you getting "professional help", that got the old dander up! My personal experiences where that the two different therapists I saw, for two totally different reasons, were not what I would describe as "professional" in the least, although they did have the degrees and appropriate letters after their names.
In that sense, I guess one could look at the people you meet online and say, "look, they can't even agree on the same things"... but, is that any different that in real life? As for the quacks online... yes, you will find a whole bunch of them. They are everywhere on the internet and I think there is probably some security in hiding behind their computer monitors. On the other hand, there are just as many quacks in real life, so it makes online life resemble real life very closely. The same genuine people and quacks that you find in real life, you'll also find online. But to classify anyone on the internet is not a "real person"... I beg to differ
Huggggggs,
Cheryl0 -
My Take on itCherylHutch said:WTG Phil!
Ok, trust Phil to come in with a different perspective and one that is very reasonable and thought out. Looking at it from this perspective, it takes on a whole different meaning than when I first read your post, PammySue.
I took it that your boss did not come to you because you were wondering how you could get therapy and whether or not you could afford it. I read the post as the boss came to you and inferred that you needed therapy, that he looked up various therapists that you should go to and that if you couldn't afford it, he would pay for it.... all done without you asking or mentioning that you thought this might be something you needed.
When taken in that light, then I am glad you came here to vent and if I were in your shoes, well you saw what my reaction was . But, as Phil has pointed out, some people get a lot of help from therapists and it is a much needed/wanted service. I have had two experiences where I turned to therapy (not cancer related) in my life... and they were, without a doubt, the worst experiences and a total waste of money (paid for by my medical insurance). So bad that they both have left a very bad taste in my mouth... so when I read that it sounded like your boss insisted on you getting "professional help", that got the old dander up! My personal experiences where that the two different therapists I saw, for two totally different reasons, were not what I would describe as "professional" in the least, although they did have the degrees and appropriate letters after their names.
In that sense, I guess one could look at the people you meet online and say, "look, they can't even agree on the same things"... but, is that any different that in real life? As for the quacks online... yes, you will find a whole bunch of them. They are everywhere on the internet and I think there is probably some security in hiding behind their computer monitors. On the other hand, there are just as many quacks in real life, so it makes online life resemble real life very closely. The same genuine people and quacks that you find in real life, you'll also find online. But to classify anyone on the internet is not a "real person"... I beg to differ
Huggggggs,
Cheryl
I didn't even think for 1 second that he thought you were nuts and needed therapy, I figured he knew about cancer or had a family member that went through it so he had an idea of the emotional/psychological aspects that we, as proud semi-colons go through.
I had a funny sort of Seinfeld experience with a therapist once. I met this therapist and after 2 visits I could tell that there was not a connection there. You have to click in a way I feel. It's sort of like finding a chiropractor in a way. Sure, so-and-so may be a great chiropractor but sometimes they just can't work your body as well as another one might. So what happened with this one was that I went to the person who ran the clinic (I think it was a big name cancer care group who's name escapes me now) and said that I did not feel that I had a connection with so-and-so and I'd like to change to a different therapist. The woman actually said to me that I should work out with my current therapist as to WHY we were not 'clicking'. I asked them if they were nuts. I expected to see Allen Funt pop out but this was for real. It was also free so I guess you get what you pay for.
Anyway, I also thought that your boss is a guy, guys like to fix stuff. Can't help it, it's in our genes. Maybe that has something to do with it too?
Best of luck.
-phil0 -
Bad delivery from the wrong personPhillieG said:Good Gesture, not the Best Delivery
Hi PamySue,
Being a 51 year old guy who has been dealing with Stage IV colon cancer for over 5 years (never NED either - yet), I have been helped SO much from my therapist. Therapy may not be for everyone. I used to think it was for crazy people until I got cancer and started to become a crazy person. As far as his comment about internet people not being real people, I'd have to agree with that. That does not mean that being on this site, or blogging or facebeook or any of that doesn't have a place in someone's life, but I can honestly say that I have never "met" people as loonie as some I've had the displeasure have been in contact with online. Surprisingly, most everyone here has been helpful and I do not include people living with cancer in the "crazy category". I say the same thing on the other boards about them... ;-)
I certainly have gotten to know some fantastic people here and through other internet means but I have found that none of them come close to how much sitting and talking face to face with the right therapist has been for ME for dealing with cancer. It's just my opinion.
Maybe your boss is butting in but from the little I know of your situation, I think his heart is in the right spot. Maybe his nose isn't. Cancer is a hard thing for many people who are "our friends" to deal with. Some of my friendships with co-workers has gotten stronger and other people won't even talk to me anymore. Am I contagious???
I don't think cancer is a mental health issue at all, it is stressful though and takes it's toll on a person from my experiences. Man, do I know how the need to vent gets too.
That's my 2 cents on it. Vent away but I would not just forget about seeking some help if you feel you need it to cope and it's being offered. Also, you certainly can polity refuse and explain that you are dealing with it OK but thank you for the offer. Many companies are not as thoughtful when it comes to this stuff.
I also started with an anti-depressant and an anti-anxiety medication that has helped me enormously over the past 5 years. It's a **** diagnosis but you have to deal with things with the tools we all have. This board is a great one, the best I've found.
Good luck.
-phil
I have no problem with therapy. Been there, done that. Made me angrier. I am such a private person that I don't do well with a stranger. I have been on an anti-depressant for 5+ years. Just changed to Celexa AAMOF. I am so happy that you are less "crazy" with therapy. I get that same therapy here and with those I am closest too. If any of them ever tell me I need professional help, I'll go.
My problem with him is that he keeps bringing this up and since he is my boss, it's more like an 'order' to me at this point. I would have trouble thinking anything was from the kindness of his heart, he always has an agenda.
Thanks, phil,
Pam0 -
you have it rightCherylHutch said:WTG Phil!
Ok, trust Phil to come in with a different perspective and one that is very reasonable and thought out. Looking at it from this perspective, it takes on a whole different meaning than when I first read your post, PammySue.
I took it that your boss did not come to you because you were wondering how you could get therapy and whether or not you could afford it. I read the post as the boss came to you and inferred that you needed therapy, that he looked up various therapists that you should go to and that if you couldn't afford it, he would pay for it.... all done without you asking or mentioning that you thought this might be something you needed.
When taken in that light, then I am glad you came here to vent and if I were in your shoes, well you saw what my reaction was . But, as Phil has pointed out, some people get a lot of help from therapists and it is a much needed/wanted service. I have had two experiences where I turned to therapy (not cancer related) in my life... and they were, without a doubt, the worst experiences and a total waste of money (paid for by my medical insurance). So bad that they both have left a very bad taste in my mouth... so when I read that it sounded like your boss insisted on you getting "professional help", that got the old dander up! My personal experiences where that the two different therapists I saw, for two totally different reasons, were not what I would describe as "professional" in the least, although they did have the degrees and appropriate letters after their names.
In that sense, I guess one could look at the people you meet online and say, "look, they can't even agree on the same things"... but, is that any different that in real life? As for the quacks online... yes, you will find a whole bunch of them. They are everywhere on the internet and I think there is probably some security in hiding behind their computer monitors. On the other hand, there are just as many quacks in real life, so it makes online life resemble real life very closely. The same genuine people and quacks that you find in real life, you'll also find online. But to classify anyone on the internet is not a "real person"... I beg to differ
Huggggggs,
Cheryl
"I took it that your boss did not come to you because you were wondering how you could get therapy and whether or not you could afford it. I read the post as the boss came to you and inferred that you needed therapy, that he looked up various therapists that you should go to and that if you couldn't afford it, he would pay for it.... all done without you asking or mentioning that you thought this might be something you needed."
He and I have not even spoken face to face about my illness at all in nearly two months. There was a rather heated executive staff meeting a couple of weeks ago with a "strategic planner" and when I'm asked for what I think, I give it. I'm not rude, but I'm blunt. I also don't kiss the company butt anymore. I have a new set of priorities. Used to at work if the upper eschlon asked what I thought, they had a 1 or 2 in 10 shot of hearing it, now... you have very good odds of hearing it. Not rude, again. But if you don't want my opinion, don't ask for it. I have worked there longer than anyone else in the organization.
I just found this very out of the blue and rude!
(((((Thanks, Cheryl))))) (your baby is SO cute!)
Pam0 -
Crazy canzer Chick
Well, since I'm a crazy canzer chick, this topic is right up my alley! LOL
To have someone (anyone) suggest therapy and have done the research for you is pretty insensitive at best. To have a boss do this and keep bringing it up? I can't believe that is legal and is RUDE for sure. I can't think of a single business apropriate time for the boss to roll his eyes. He better be able to demonstrate lack of job performance or he may have bigger issues. Also, since I'm not really into litigation, my first step would be to HR and I wouldn't be waiting around for test results. No self-respecting HR person would let this continue for 5 minutes! Dangerous ground. The real issue has nothing to do with your abiility to benefit from therapy. That's none of his business.
I have gotten much the same reaction from people when I mention my online group or online friends. I do think, though, that everyone here are real people. I have met some in the chatroom that I don't think are canzer survivors. I understand why folks are reluctant to see this group the same as an IRL group. Now, I just call y'all my support group. No one asks if it's IRL or online and I'm sure most think I drive to group every week. I feel no need to explain.
Let us know how this works out. Remember that you are not alone so come here to whine and vent! That's what we're here for.
Hugs,
Kimby0 -
You make me smilekimby said:Crazy canzer Chick
Well, since I'm a crazy canzer chick, this topic is right up my alley! LOL
To have someone (anyone) suggest therapy and have done the research for you is pretty insensitive at best. To have a boss do this and keep bringing it up? I can't believe that is legal and is RUDE for sure. I can't think of a single business apropriate time for the boss to roll his eyes. He better be able to demonstrate lack of job performance or he may have bigger issues. Also, since I'm not really into litigation, my first step would be to HR and I wouldn't be waiting around for test results. No self-respecting HR person would let this continue for 5 minutes! Dangerous ground. The real issue has nothing to do with your abiility to benefit from therapy. That's none of his business.
I have gotten much the same reaction from people when I mention my online group or online friends. I do think, though, that everyone here are real people. I have met some in the chatroom that I don't think are canzer survivors. I understand why folks are reluctant to see this group the same as an IRL group. Now, I just call y'all my support group. No one asks if it's IRL or online and I'm sure most think I drive to group every week. I feel no need to explain.
Let us know how this works out. Remember that you are not alone so come here to whine and vent! That's what we're here for.
Hugs,
Kimby
You hit my level of p*ssed off as quickly as I did. HR is one old lady. It's a pretty small non-profit. Thousands of volunteers but only about 70 paid staff thoughout all the agencies. He has apparently made this comment to other people at the main office, that I need "help". I'm going to consult a lawyer and make sure I have ground here before I go to the board of directors, as they would be my next supervisor above him.
This is his email in full. We have talked quite a few times since I was diagnosed a year ago and many times during chemo I know I used the term basket case in reference to what I would be if I didn't have my work to do.
" Several times you have told be how scared you are and you have used the term "basket case" several times. I cannot fully understand the stress you are under. Without mentioning you by name I visited with Dr. Robert King of the Murney Clinic and asked if he had colleagues who might be helpful to you in dealing with the fear and stress you are under. I shared your battle with cancer and the complications associated with it and asked for suggestions for professional help in dealing with those stressors. His email to me is below and I pass these names on to you with my renewed encouragement for you to seek professional help in dealing with the very real, fearsome issues that are you're everyday fare right now. I think I have told you that there have been two specific time in my life, one when I was going through divorce and the other when I was without a job for three months, when I sought and greatly benefitted from professional help. There is no shame in it. Seeking help is not a weakness but a strength.
Our insurance program makes provision for mental health services and the Murney Clinic works on a sliding scale. If you cannot afford the co-pay, if any, I will help you out with that.
I hope that you will receive my suggestion in the spirit of genuine care, concern, and good will with which it offered. You are a valued and respected colleague. I want nothing but health and well being for you."
I just think it's too intruding for my BOSS to keep bringing this up. Especially since we aren't even close and I told him that he particularly was NOT welcome each of the times I have been in for surgery this last year. We discuss my illness as it has pertained to my work and my ability to do my job at times. I was on disability pay and worked as much as I was able to. Heck, I worked from my laptop from the hospital.
I'm just so p*ssed off about this. And maybe I'm just having a ton of frustration vent through this episode.
You all are my group. Whether I post or just read. :-)0 -
My Take...pamysue said:You make me smile
You hit my level of p*ssed off as quickly as I did. HR is one old lady. It's a pretty small non-profit. Thousands of volunteers but only about 70 paid staff thoughout all the agencies. He has apparently made this comment to other people at the main office, that I need "help". I'm going to consult a lawyer and make sure I have ground here before I go to the board of directors, as they would be my next supervisor above him.
This is his email in full. We have talked quite a few times since I was diagnosed a year ago and many times during chemo I know I used the term basket case in reference to what I would be if I didn't have my work to do.
" Several times you have told be how scared you are and you have used the term "basket case" several times. I cannot fully understand the stress you are under. Without mentioning you by name I visited with Dr. Robert King of the Murney Clinic and asked if he had colleagues who might be helpful to you in dealing with the fear and stress you are under. I shared your battle with cancer and the complications associated with it and asked for suggestions for professional help in dealing with those stressors. His email to me is below and I pass these names on to you with my renewed encouragement for you to seek professional help in dealing with the very real, fearsome issues that are you're everyday fare right now. I think I have told you that there have been two specific time in my life, one when I was going through divorce and the other when I was without a job for three months, when I sought and greatly benefitted from professional help. There is no shame in it. Seeking help is not a weakness but a strength.
Our insurance program makes provision for mental health services and the Murney Clinic works on a sliding scale. If you cannot afford the co-pay, if any, I will help you out with that.
I hope that you will receive my suggestion in the spirit of genuine care, concern, and good will with which it offered. You are a valued and respected colleague. I want nothing but health and well being for you."
I just think it's too intruding for my BOSS to keep bringing this up. Especially since we aren't even close and I told him that he particularly was NOT welcome each of the times I have been in for surgery this last year. We discuss my illness as it has pertained to my work and my ability to do my job at times. I was on disability pay and worked as much as I was able to. Heck, I worked from my laptop from the hospital.
I'm just so p*ssed off about this. And maybe I'm just having a ton of frustration vent through this episode.
You all are my group. Whether I post or just read. :-)
Leaving any of his 'personal caring and concerns' aside, he has crossed a line that is not acceptable. As a former Director of HR, there are guidelines and laws concerning your employers 'involvement' in your treatment and care. The Disabilities Act alone protects you. I would at least get an opinion from an qualified employment attorney. Actually contacting these services for you is way beyond being helpful, it's intrusive and possibly illegal. He needs to know the boundaries, even if his intentions were good. And so does your Board.
JMHO....Vicki0 -
Hmm...
Here's my thought, and it might be (pardon me!) crazy. I wonder if your boss is trying to set you up to try to let you go. I guess particularly because he put his thoughts in writing, it raised my suspicions that he might be trying to get documentation in place to have in your file. Hopefully I'm just a crazy, not real internet person. *grins* I hope you find a way to continue at your job and have him stay out of your business!
*hugs*
Gail0 -
Not Coolpamysue said:Bad delivery from the wrong person
I have no problem with therapy. Been there, done that. Made me angrier. I am such a private person that I don't do well with a stranger. I have been on an anti-depressant for 5+ years. Just changed to Celexa AAMOF. I am so happy that you are less "crazy" with therapy. I get that same therapy here and with those I am closest too. If any of them ever tell me I need professional help, I'll go.
My problem with him is that he keeps bringing this up and since he is my boss, it's more like an 'order' to me at this point. I would have trouble thinking anything was from the kindness of his heart, he always has an agenda.
Thanks, phil,
Pam
The more I hear the less cool it sounds. I didn't know his background, it sounds like he's butting his nose in like you said. You certainly do not need to keep hearing this, from him, at work. At first I looked at through MY eyes and thought that since I know how this cancer can be a mind-f, the offer sounded sound. With more info he sounds like a do gooder with an agenda. I'd probably thank him for his offer but tell him you are handling it with your own support group.
I hate people with agendas and those who know better than everyone else...
He's your boss but keep you distance and your guard up Pam but try to keep your cool too if possible.
-phil0 -
Set Up
My thoughts also, Gail. His putting it in writing is a telling sign
that he possibly is setting you up to get you out of your job. Does
he have any evidence to add to this......missed a lot of work, behind
in work, upset a lot at work such as crying and talking a lot about
your problems, moody at work, etc. etc. I would think over the last
few months and review any episodes that he might use against you and
seek advice from an employment attorney as you mentioned. Not every
work place is supporting, caring about our situations and will only
extend themselves a while before it goes over, in their minds, to
grounds for dismissal.....you may have a lot of ammunition to use
such as the disability act but it seems it would be better to find
a more diplomatic, positive way to resolve this before it goes
any further. This is truly not the time to have to worry about
being out of a job, the job market being what it is....my two cents.
Barbara0 -
Hmmmm sounds likedixchi said:Set Up
My thoughts also, Gail. His putting it in writing is a telling sign
that he possibly is setting you up to get you out of your job. Does
he have any evidence to add to this......missed a lot of work, behind
in work, upset a lot at work such as crying and talking a lot about
your problems, moody at work, etc. etc. I would think over the last
few months and review any episodes that he might use against you and
seek advice from an employment attorney as you mentioned. Not every
work place is supporting, caring about our situations and will only
extend themselves a while before it goes over, in their minds, to
grounds for dismissal.....you may have a lot of ammunition to use
such as the disability act but it seems it would be better to find
a more diplomatic, positive way to resolve this before it goes
any further. This is truly not the time to have to worry about
being out of a job, the job market being what it is....my two cents.
Barbara
He doesn't sound like he's trying to get rid of you. Certainly if he tried to say anything negative you could use his own words in your defense. Maybe he's uncomfortable with 'cancer' and uncomfortable with 'feelings' so was just trying to find a quick fix.
He said: I hope that you will receive my suggestion in the spirit of genuine care, concern, and good will with which it offered. You are a valued and respected colleague. I want nothing but health and well being for you."0 -
Yes and no
Hi Pam,
I understand your pissed-offedness (I'm good at making up words.) On the one hand, there's concern, but on the other there is intrusiveness. Personally, I think he has crossed the line, but he has also been supportive according to his own perceptions by talking to you and going on to research stuff.
However, before you talk to an attorney, how about you sit down with him and try to explain the difference between concern/support and intrusiveness. Explain that he is not a doctor and is not in a position to diagnose your mental health. Ask if the quality of your work has suffered and if so, in what way. Tell him you love him for caring, but it would be much healthier for both of you if he backed off some. He may start to get his feelings hurt, but explain that it is not personal--your cancer is personal and your wellbeing comes from many sources, including this board. Ask him not to denigrate your mainstays. I think he really wants to help, but like many men, he doesn't just let you talk, he tries to find a SOLUTION! A fix-it. If you explain these things, I think he will actually feel relieved. I'm getting the impression that he feels responsible to "fix" you and your life.
If this does not work, THEN see an attorney. P.S. It wouldn't hurt to have a witness from HR with you when you have this conversation.
Hugs and prayers,
Kirsten0 -
WOWpamysue said:You make me smile
You hit my level of p*ssed off as quickly as I did. HR is one old lady. It's a pretty small non-profit. Thousands of volunteers but only about 70 paid staff thoughout all the agencies. He has apparently made this comment to other people at the main office, that I need "help". I'm going to consult a lawyer and make sure I have ground here before I go to the board of directors, as they would be my next supervisor above him.
This is his email in full. We have talked quite a few times since I was diagnosed a year ago and many times during chemo I know I used the term basket case in reference to what I would be if I didn't have my work to do.
" Several times you have told be how scared you are and you have used the term "basket case" several times. I cannot fully understand the stress you are under. Without mentioning you by name I visited with Dr. Robert King of the Murney Clinic and asked if he had colleagues who might be helpful to you in dealing with the fear and stress you are under. I shared your battle with cancer and the complications associated with it and asked for suggestions for professional help in dealing with those stressors. His email to me is below and I pass these names on to you with my renewed encouragement for you to seek professional help in dealing with the very real, fearsome issues that are you're everyday fare right now. I think I have told you that there have been two specific time in my life, one when I was going through divorce and the other when I was without a job for three months, when I sought and greatly benefitted from professional help. There is no shame in it. Seeking help is not a weakness but a strength.
Our insurance program makes provision for mental health services and the Murney Clinic works on a sliding scale. If you cannot afford the co-pay, if any, I will help you out with that.
I hope that you will receive my suggestion in the spirit of genuine care, concern, and good will with which it offered. You are a valued and respected colleague. I want nothing but health and well being for you."
I just think it's too intruding for my BOSS to keep bringing this up. Especially since we aren't even close and I told him that he particularly was NOT welcome each of the times I have been in for surgery this last year. We discuss my illness as it has pertained to my work and my ability to do my job at times. I was on disability pay and worked as much as I was able to. Heck, I worked from my laptop from the hospital.
I'm just so p*ssed off about this. And maybe I'm just having a ton of frustration vent through this episode.
You all are my group. Whether I post or just read. :-)
Pam,
The more I read and understand the situation, the more I feel this guy is way out of line and who knows, maybe he is trying to set you up. I had a totally different reaction where I work. I was a temp with so-so insurance, they hired me and put me on staff so I could go to Sloan Kettering and have them in network. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt but I'd watch your "colon" so to speak. Document as much as you can and see what legal option you have. I didn't understand that he was doing all of this so called help for you. Smells rotten.
As far as youse guys being real people, I think everyone here with the exception of one person who no longer visits are real people who are trying to help. I did (and shouldn't have) compared this to blogging. I don't know if anyone has/had gotten into that but it's a loonie magnet it seems. At least that was my experience with it. Again, there were some great people who I've been in touch with for 5 years or so from all over the world but there are some that were whacked out (IMO)
Good Luck Pam.
-phil
PS: They're not imaginary friends, they're real people that I imagine are my friends :-)0 -
One to Onekmygil said:Yes and no
Hi Pam,
I understand your pissed-offedness (I'm good at making up words.) On the one hand, there's concern, but on the other there is intrusiveness. Personally, I think he has crossed the line, but he has also been supportive according to his own perceptions by talking to you and going on to research stuff.
However, before you talk to an attorney, how about you sit down with him and try to explain the difference between concern/support and intrusiveness. Explain that he is not a doctor and is not in a position to diagnose your mental health. Ask if the quality of your work has suffered and if so, in what way. Tell him you love him for caring, but it would be much healthier for both of you if he backed off some. He may start to get his feelings hurt, but explain that it is not personal--your cancer is personal and your wellbeing comes from many sources, including this board. Ask him not to denigrate your mainstays. I think he really wants to help, but like many men, he doesn't just let you talk, he tries to find a SOLUTION! A fix-it. If you explain these things, I think he will actually feel relieved. I'm getting the impression that he feels responsible to "fix" you and your life.
If this does not work, THEN see an attorney. P.S. It wouldn't hurt to have a witness from HR with you when you have this conversation.
Hugs and prayers,
Kirsten
I agree Kirsten.....a private talk would be the first best step and also
agree that there needs to be another person such as HR rep present during
the talk. Any steps to keep the situation from blowing out of proportion
is good......was only thinking of employment attorney for advice seeking,
not taking legal action.....diplomacy, diplomacy....first and foremost...
Barbara0 -
wow
The irony is that it sounds like your boss may be trying to be nice or do something nice and coming off like a jerk.
It is awesome that he is offering you therapy and offering to pay for it... but it shouldn't be pushed on you.
I know that before I found these boards, I was a mess. I couldn't stop crying after chemo stopped, I was tired, I was scared, I was angry, my husband didn't know how to support me anymore and my mom was having a hard time coping and I knew I needed help. I lived in a small town and didn't know where to get the help, and in searching for a support group I found this site. It helped 120%. I was able to connect with people (yes, they are real people) who felt the same way and were able to help give me suggestions that I was able to find and use. I didn't feel that I needed any further therapy after that. It kept me sane. Just because we aren't able to sit around in a circle, face-to-face and discuss our problems, our triumphs, our stories, and our lives doesn't make us any less of a support group. The difference is that each of us can and will contribute when it fits our schedule. We are also able to say stuff on this site that you may not have had the courage or would have been to embarrassed to say otherwise. Also, these "fake" people do actually meet each other often in real life...
I say you need to do what works for you.
Maybe tell your boss that you appreciate the offer and that if you feel you need further help in the future you will take him up on it. Let your boss know that you have a support system made up of real people and it is working for you right now. Maybe your boss is having a harder time of it and needs therapy himself?
I think when we get cancer people don't know what to do for us. It makes other's uncomfortable. Either they disappear or they sometimes think we should be feeling sorrier for ourselves than we are or doing worse than we are.
Tricia0 -
Well put, Tricia!chynabear said:wow
The irony is that it sounds like your boss may be trying to be nice or do something nice and coming off like a jerk.
It is awesome that he is offering you therapy and offering to pay for it... but it shouldn't be pushed on you.
I know that before I found these boards, I was a mess. I couldn't stop crying after chemo stopped, I was tired, I was scared, I was angry, my husband didn't know how to support me anymore and my mom was having a hard time coping and I knew I needed help. I lived in a small town and didn't know where to get the help, and in searching for a support group I found this site. It helped 120%. I was able to connect with people (yes, they are real people) who felt the same way and were able to help give me suggestions that I was able to find and use. I didn't feel that I needed any further therapy after that. It kept me sane. Just because we aren't able to sit around in a circle, face-to-face and discuss our problems, our triumphs, our stories, and our lives doesn't make us any less of a support group. The difference is that each of us can and will contribute when it fits our schedule. We are also able to say stuff on this site that you may not have had the courage or would have been to embarrassed to say otherwise. Also, these "fake" people do actually meet each other often in real life...
I say you need to do what works for you.
Maybe tell your boss that you appreciate the offer and that if you feel you need further help in the future you will take him up on it. Let your boss know that you have a support system made up of real people and it is working for you right now. Maybe your boss is having a harder time of it and needs therapy himself?
I think when we get cancer people don't know what to do for us. It makes other's uncomfortable. Either they disappear or they sometimes think we should be feeling sorrier for ourselves than we are or doing worse than we are.
Tricia
You hit an interesting nerve there, Tricia! That bears asking... what exactly is a support group? The thought of meeting up with a bunch of strangers once/week (or whatever the timeframe) to sit around in a circle and discuss what is bothering me just does not appeal to me at all. When I had my moments of sheer terror after being told the prognosis was 2 month - 2 years, I was constantly in tears and there was no way I could leave the apartment... let alone leave the apartment and go sit in a room with a bunch of strangers.
I guess what I'm saying is Group Therapy is not my thing. I have tried one-on-one therapy in the past (not cancer related) and that didn't work for me either. I guess I just didn't click with either therapist but I found it a total waste of money for myself.
I know others have gotten a lot out of therapy, for many different reasons. I have a couple of girlfriends who swear by their therapists... and others who are not comfortable with the one-on-one, but find group therapy to be the answer to their stress and problems
So, I'm not knocking it, it's just not for me. But then I found this group online. I had no intentions of joining it at all... I didn't see there'd be much difference between group therapy in real life and group therapy online. I was just going to lurk and read to see if I could get answers to my questions (which I had a kajillion of). Well, I think I managed to lurk for one day and then I couldn't help myself... I had to join in and get to know these "fake online people". If all of us are fake, then more power to us... there's a wealth of information here. Some is information we already know so it just confirms that we have that knowledge and other information is new, stuff we either weren't told, or didn't hear. And the best part... when we are feeling down or scared or anxious... the rest of the group is here to remind us that we will make it through the hard times.
I think if people can get support from in-person therapy, then great! If they get what they need from online therapy then that's great too. Whatever works, go for it
Hugggggs,
Cheryl0 -
Get some good legal adviceCherylHutch said:Well put, Tricia!
You hit an interesting nerve there, Tricia! That bears asking... what exactly is a support group? The thought of meeting up with a bunch of strangers once/week (or whatever the timeframe) to sit around in a circle and discuss what is bothering me just does not appeal to me at all. When I had my moments of sheer terror after being told the prognosis was 2 month - 2 years, I was constantly in tears and there was no way I could leave the apartment... let alone leave the apartment and go sit in a room with a bunch of strangers.
I guess what I'm saying is Group Therapy is not my thing. I have tried one-on-one therapy in the past (not cancer related) and that didn't work for me either. I guess I just didn't click with either therapist but I found it a total waste of money for myself.
I know others have gotten a lot out of therapy, for many different reasons. I have a couple of girlfriends who swear by their therapists... and others who are not comfortable with the one-on-one, but find group therapy to be the answer to their stress and problems
So, I'm not knocking it, it's just not for me. But then I found this group online. I had no intentions of joining it at all... I didn't see there'd be much difference between group therapy in real life and group therapy online. I was just going to lurk and read to see if I could get answers to my questions (which I had a kajillion of). Well, I think I managed to lurk for one day and then I couldn't help myself... I had to join in and get to know these "fake online people". If all of us are fake, then more power to us... there's a wealth of information here. Some is information we already know so it just confirms that we have that knowledge and other information is new, stuff we either weren't told, or didn't hear. And the best part... when we are feeling down or scared or anxious... the rest of the group is here to remind us that we will make it through the hard times.
I think if people can get support from in-person therapy, then great! If they get what they need from online therapy then that's great too. Whatever works, go for it
Hugggggs,
Cheryl
TamySue -
My two cents worth - Talk to a lawyer who is knowledgeable about employment law issues; Do this before haveing a heart to heart with you boss. My thought on this is that you may wish to have an evaluation by a mental health professional just to document that you do not have issues that interfere with your ability to do your job, if there is a realistic possiblity that your boss is after your job. But talk to someone who knows this area of the law and can give you some good advice.0
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