Friends and Mortality
I certainly don't mean dwell on the topic or work it to death but THAT reality too needs it's light of day to be reconciled. Do your friends/family understand your new reality or do you avoid the topic as well. Looking forward to your views.
jan
Comments
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Instead of thinking about the difference between me and my friends, I think instead about the preC me and me now. Would preC me want to discuss mortality...no. And preC me was a pretty cool person, ready to be as honest as possible with life. One reason why preC me would not have wanted to discuss mortality with a C experiencer is she would have been aware of exactly the divide you have mentioned. She would have been aware that no matter what she says, she can not fully appreciate the pain of the other and would be very careful to be respectful of this pain. The gulf goes both ways. This is not to say I would have changed the subject. And I do have some friends who wade bravely into these waters with me, but I am a better swimmer and try not to go to deep. It is interesting that this morning I chatted with this homeless woman, my age, who hangs around Starbucks sometimes. I tried real hard to see her as a sister, I think I did. But was she aware that little ol' purse full of credit cards and cash me was never going to really be a sister to her? Probably. You know what I did? I told her I have cancer. Somehow I wanted to share some hard times....even if they weren't the same hard times. Don't know if any of this helps your thoughts. I do think about the same question and these are mine.
Thanks for writing something provacative. OH, and when people say the hit by the bus thing - screw that. It is plenty stupid. Hey, that felt good to say! love, Joyce0 -
Onoe more thing (and with me there always is!) and that is the words to a Jackson Browne song.unknown said:Instead of thinking about the difference between me and my friends, I think instead about the preC me and me now. Would preC me want to discuss mortality...no. And preC me was a pretty cool person, ready to be as honest as possible with life. One reason why preC me would not have wanted to discuss mortality with a C experiencer is she would have been aware of exactly the divide you have mentioned. She would have been aware that no matter what she says, she can not fully appreciate the pain of the other and would be very careful to be respectful of this pain. The gulf goes both ways. This is not to say I would have changed the subject. And I do have some friends who wade bravely into these waters with me, but I am a better swimmer and try not to go to deep. It is interesting that this morning I chatted with this homeless woman, my age, who hangs around Starbucks sometimes. I tried real hard to see her as a sister, I think I did. But was she aware that little ol' purse full of credit cards and cash me was never going to really be a sister to her? Probably. You know what I did? I told her I have cancer. Somehow I wanted to share some hard times....even if they weren't the same hard times. Don't know if any of this helps your thoughts. I do think about the same question and these are mine.
Thanks for writing something provacative. OH, and when people say the hit by the bus thing - screw that. It is plenty stupid. Hey, that felt good to say! love, Joyce
I CAN CRY WITH THE BEST. I CAN LAUGH WITH THE REST.
I do like it when people try to bridge gaps. Joyce0 -
Hi Jan,
I too have had this happen to me. I see it as a knee jerk response from folks who have no clue what it is like to have cancer. It is an attempt to reassure us, but sadly it falls short. Sometimes I try to gently explain that it is not the same, I have already been hit by the bus (cancer) and I am in a life and death struggle daily for the rest of my life to get out from underneath it before it crushes me. This seems to vividly drive the point home. We are not the same person we were before and we never will be again. For me that is okay, I am stronger, wiser and able to help others. I will not allow cancer to rob me of the joy of living. God put me here for a purpose and as long as I can keep that bus at bay I will live a purposeful and joyful life. Yes, there will be fear and tears but the joy has proven to far outweigh the fear and tears. Don't let these folks get to you , they mean well they just have no real concept of your situation.
Lots of Hugs to you!
Rena0 -
I too have been in your shoes. Those people just don't understand that this C is part of our life for the rest of our life. Having the C I've learned this year who my real friends are.
Jackie0 -
Ahhh, you're right. They can never know how life changes until they experience at least some sort of health crisis. I think it's wonderful that you reach out to the homeless and I'm sure she appreciated you sharing your story. She was probably thinking, glad I don't have that LOL.unknown said:Instead of thinking about the difference between me and my friends, I think instead about the preC me and me now. Would preC me want to discuss mortality...no. And preC me was a pretty cool person, ready to be as honest as possible with life. One reason why preC me would not have wanted to discuss mortality with a C experiencer is she would have been aware of exactly the divide you have mentioned. She would have been aware that no matter what she says, she can not fully appreciate the pain of the other and would be very careful to be respectful of this pain. The gulf goes both ways. This is not to say I would have changed the subject. And I do have some friends who wade bravely into these waters with me, but I am a better swimmer and try not to go to deep. It is interesting that this morning I chatted with this homeless woman, my age, who hangs around Starbucks sometimes. I tried real hard to see her as a sister, I think I did. But was she aware that little ol' purse full of credit cards and cash me was never going to really be a sister to her? Probably. You know what I did? I told her I have cancer. Somehow I wanted to share some hard times....even if they weren't the same hard times. Don't know if any of this helps your thoughts. I do think about the same question and these are mine.
Thanks for writing something provacative. OH, and when people say the hit by the bus thing - screw that. It is plenty stupid. Hey, that felt good to say! love, Joyce
Thank you for your thoughts Joyce, I really appreciate your take on this.
jan0 -
Thank you Rena, I'm glad you have found strength and wisdom in all this. Perhaps I am new yet, (just about 1yr out of chemo) and will find all that good stuff people keep talking about in the future. I don't seem to feel the same joy and passion as I once did, just kinda flatlining, neither great nor really bad. Perhaps for now that's enough for me. It's nice to hear you are in a good place, hopefully that will come to me too. Thank you for your thoughts.RE said:Hi Jan,
I too have had this happen to me. I see it as a knee jerk response from folks who have no clue what it is like to have cancer. It is an attempt to reassure us, but sadly it falls short. Sometimes I try to gently explain that it is not the same, I have already been hit by the bus (cancer) and I am in a life and death struggle daily for the rest of my life to get out from underneath it before it crushes me. This seems to vividly drive the point home. We are not the same person we were before and we never will be again. For me that is okay, I am stronger, wiser and able to help others. I will not allow cancer to rob me of the joy of living. God put me here for a purpose and as long as I can keep that bus at bay I will live a purposeful and joyful life. Yes, there will be fear and tears but the joy has proven to far outweigh the fear and tears. Don't let these folks get to you , they mean well they just have no real concept of your situation.
Lots of Hugs to you!
Rena
jan0 -
Losing friends through this can be painful. I have a couple I don't hear much from anymore and I do miss them. Thank you Jackie for sharing that.jackiemanz said:I too have been in your shoes. Those people just don't understand that this C is part of our life for the rest of our life. Having the C I've learned this year who my real friends are.
Jackie
jan0 -
Jan, you raise an excellent point. I have found that my friends, and we are very, very close, seem to want to sweep the talk about cancer and its realities under a rug of platitudes like "you'll be fine; you're going to beat this thing, no sweat; you have great doctors; don't think negative thoughts, think positive; and yes, you could be hit by a bus." All well-meaning and positive thinking statements, but I suspect it is a defense mechanism on their parts which protects them from facing their deep down, gut-level fears that it COULD happen to them. For that reason, I do not discuss much with them. We talk our old girl talk and stay away from some of the topics I would like talk about. That's why, for me, this site is so very important. We can discuss these facts and are not afraid to approach them, email about them, post about them, chat about them. Bless this site and all of our sisters. Marilynn0
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Hey Jan,
You are absolutely correct with how to respond to the people that have not had cancer. There are many that have learned to listen and not judge. I find that the older the person is, the more they have learned that God made us with two ears and only one mouth so we can listen twice as much as we speak. I absolutely look at life differently and with a new lens. One good thing is my lens is much clearer and calmer. I just don't take work and problems as serious issues. I have definitely found my "true" friends and "acquaintances". My true friends are the ones I can talk with honestly and they use two ears. Those acquaintances friends are just that, the day or two friends, they don't mean harm but honestly just don't get it. This is why this board of sisterhood is so important to me. We all get it. In the chat rooms, we all get it. Those that are dear to me do try their best and luckily have big arms and angels that they loan to me when I need it. As the song says "I can see clearly now....I can see all obstacles in the way". Sometimes I just have to hold hands with the obstacles(cancer) but I will keep walking as long as I can. Angela0 -
I think it will come to you in time, as you said it is still new to you. I have been dealing with my cancer for 11 years now. I certainly understand where you are as I too have been there. When the chat rooms come back up it will be nice to chat with you a bit. We have to be there for each other, no one knows the walk we are on like we do.phoenixrising said:Thank you Rena, I'm glad you have found strength and wisdom in all this. Perhaps I am new yet, (just about 1yr out of chemo) and will find all that good stuff people keep talking about in the future. I don't seem to feel the same joy and passion as I once did, just kinda flatlining, neither great nor really bad. Perhaps for now that's enough for me. It's nice to hear you are in a good place, hopefully that will come to me too. Thank you for your thoughts.
jan
Rena0 -
One reason I searched for this site, was because I felt so alone with my bc, no one, not one person really understood what was happening to me, and now 3 years later, it has been swept under the rug so far, it is like it never happened. It is here, and sadly, only here on this site that I know I am understood, can express myself, share, cry, laugh, and celebrate the good news we hear from time to time. It wasn't discussed by me for a long time to any family until my son recently returned from his 3rd tour in Kuwait. He was over there when all this happened, the chemo part, and it is only now that we talk about it. I am not sure he is comfortable with it, but....he DOES listen to me, and what I have to say. It has for me been a healing that even I didn't know I needed. For many of my family and friends, this was long ago, over with, and the side affects we live with for the rest of our lives are kept silent, rarely expressed. Thank you for bringing up this subject, your responses have been wonderful to read, and confirm to me how precious our sisterhood is.
Blessings to all of you,
bev490 -
I guess it is similar to when someone asks 'How are you?' and doesn't really want to hear anything but 'fine'. For those who have not faced their own mortality, they do not want to be educated, because it is easier to go thru life thinking that death is a long, long, long way off. We who have faced the beast know different.
I will usually gloss over the subject, unless I know this person really DOES want to know how I am. There are enough people I have around me that are like this, that I have given up, or at least toned down, attempting to change the rest.
Hugs, Kathi0 -
Great question, Jan. And reading everyone's answers made me feel not so alone. I feel as if I haven't had a best friend since I got C. Nobody's mentioned my C for years, but yet I know they talk about it when I'm not in the room. I really hate that. As if I'm not able to handle it. Jeez, haven't I proven that I'm able to handle THAT and a whole lot more yet? When do I get my Big Girl medal?
Swept under the carpet . . . my family and friends have buried it in a hole in a yard across town!
So, I made new friends. For me, there's one or two that talk to me like I'm a real person. And maybe they don't have the right things to say, but that's ok because there isn't anyone who really does except those that have been through it. The new friends mostly listen and don't try to make me feel better. I appreciate that. But I can also see that they don't always have the energy to talk about it like they would -- oh, say -- a divorce, a cheating husband, a crazy mother in law, but I guess I wouldn't either if I were them. I don't have as many close friends as I use to. I miss my old friends, too. I miss believing that my best friend (s) will always be there, no matter what. Like when you were a kid, you know?
As for the bus analogy . . . they think that they're bridging the great divide between their lives and ours. Like that's going to make us feel better. Instead it just alienates us more. Oh well. At least we all can be honest with each other. There's something to be said for that. Thanks for posting! It feels good to vent!
xoxo,
Kim0 -
HI Jan..that bus analogy thing really gets to me...at least if I had been hit by a bus...I wouldnt know what hit me!!! But what has hit me is cancer ..not once but twice ...how do you just go on each day acting like it never happened? Its more like waiting each day for the next occurrence. I just had a prophylactic mastectomy 2 weeks ago and 2 biopsies under the previous scar...I was told they came out good but the path report on the right breast says atypical ductal hyperplasia...the surgeon said I was smart to have had this removed b4 it turned into cancer...makes you feel like you are a ticking bomb...hope I didnt bring anyone down but I'm having a real problem with just accepting and moving on...accepting I can do..its the moving on and acting like things are the same so that friends and family arent upset that get to me. What about me being upset? don't I have the right to worry about my LIFE?...I have things to live for too...why cant ppl just let us have our good and our bad times and accept us for who we are?0
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Thank you Rena, 11 yrs? Congratulations!RE said:I think it will come to you in time, as you said it is still new to you. I have been dealing with my cancer for 11 years now. I certainly understand where you are as I too have been there. When the chat rooms come back up it will be nice to chat with you a bit. We have to be there for each other, no one knows the walk we are on like we do.
Rena0 -
I guess they just want things to get back to the way they were.....and so do we. But we can't. "Don't think negative thoughts?" That's hilarious! Positive thinking got me into this mess by a) I'll never get it, we don't have cancer in my family and b) it's nothing, it'll go away on it's own. Guess I was wrongmgm42 said:Jan, you raise an excellent point. I have found that my friends, and we are very, very close, seem to want to sweep the talk about cancer and its realities under a rug of platitudes like "you'll be fine; you're going to beat this thing, no sweat; you have great doctors; don't think negative thoughts, think positive; and yes, you could be hit by a bus." All well-meaning and positive thinking statements, but I suspect it is a defense mechanism on their parts which protects them from facing their deep down, gut-level fears that it COULD happen to them. For that reason, I do not discuss much with them. We talk our old girl talk and stay away from some of the topics I would like talk about. That's why, for me, this site is so very important. We can discuss these facts and are not afraid to approach them, email about them, post about them, chat about them. Bless this site and all of our sisters. Marilynn
I think I will do what you're doing, just avoid that area with those people I feel are uncomfortable with the topic.
Thank you Marilynn for your insight. And bless you too.
jan0 -
I have some who really try and then the others that think it's being negative and don't want to hear any negativity. I'm still at the point of looking at this new reality like it is something outside my body. Something solid you can touch and explore and when I talk to people about it I am really just exploring it more fully. Soon I will adapt I hope.survivor51 said:Hey Jan,
You are absolutely correct with how to respond to the people that have not had cancer. There are many that have learned to listen and not judge. I find that the older the person is, the more they have learned that God made us with two ears and only one mouth so we can listen twice as much as we speak. I absolutely look at life differently and with a new lens. One good thing is my lens is much clearer and calmer. I just don't take work and problems as serious issues. I have definitely found my "true" friends and "acquaintances". My true friends are the ones I can talk with honestly and they use two ears. Those acquaintances friends are just that, the day or two friends, they don't mean harm but honestly just don't get it. This is why this board of sisterhood is so important to me. We all get it. In the chat rooms, we all get it. Those that are dear to me do try their best and luckily have big arms and angels that they loan to me when I need it. As the song says "I can see clearly now....I can see all obstacles in the way". Sometimes I just have to hold hands with the obstacles(cancer) but I will keep walking as long as I can. Angela
Funny thing is, I'm not calmer. So these personality changes are hard on me cause I don't really like them. I'm alot more impatient and irritable and I don't handle stress as well as I used to. Guess I'll have to wait for that too.
Thank you for your thoughts Angela.
jan0 -
Bev, I'm sure your son knows what you're talking about....he just doesn't want to lose his mom. He sounds like good medicine for you, all we need is one person, right? Blessings to you too.bev49 said:One reason I searched for this site, was because I felt so alone with my bc, no one, not one person really understood what was happening to me, and now 3 years later, it has been swept under the rug so far, it is like it never happened. It is here, and sadly, only here on this site that I know I am understood, can express myself, share, cry, laugh, and celebrate the good news we hear from time to time. It wasn't discussed by me for a long time to any family until my son recently returned from his 3rd tour in Kuwait. He was over there when all this happened, the chemo part, and it is only now that we talk about it. I am not sure he is comfortable with it, but....he DOES listen to me, and what I have to say. It has for me been a healing that even I didn't know I needed. For many of my family and friends, this was long ago, over with, and the side affects we live with for the rest of our lives are kept silent, rarely expressed. Thank you for bringing up this subject, your responses have been wonderful to read, and confirm to me how precious our sisterhood is.
Blessings to all of you,
bev49
jan0 -
I usually tell them exactly how I'm feeling and bore them to death for the next half hour.....that'll teach them! LOLKathiM said:I guess it is similar to when someone asks 'How are you?' and doesn't really want to hear anything but 'fine'. For those who have not faced their own mortality, they do not want to be educated, because it is easier to go thru life thinking that death is a long, long, long way off. We who have faced the beast know different.
I will usually gloss over the subject, unless I know this person really DOES want to know how I am. There are enough people I have around me that are like this, that I have given up, or at least toned down, attempting to change the rest.
Hugs, Kathi
Thanks for your input Kathi I appreciate it.
jan0 -
Kim, I am so glad this helped you feel better and not so alone. It sounds like we give up more than just breasts with this. You know I think my family comes from a long line of don't talk about it around the person because it might bother them. I wonder if your family is like that too. My friend lost her son many years ago and you know I am so careful not to mention it cause I don't want to upset her. Maybe she's thinking....nobody mentions him, it's like he was never alive. Hmmmmm.kbc4869 said:Great question, Jan. And reading everyone's answers made me feel not so alone. I feel as if I haven't had a best friend since I got C. Nobody's mentioned my C for years, but yet I know they talk about it when I'm not in the room. I really hate that. As if I'm not able to handle it. Jeez, haven't I proven that I'm able to handle THAT and a whole lot more yet? When do I get my Big Girl medal?
Swept under the carpet . . . my family and friends have buried it in a hole in a yard across town!
So, I made new friends. For me, there's one or two that talk to me like I'm a real person. And maybe they don't have the right things to say, but that's ok because there isn't anyone who really does except those that have been through it. The new friends mostly listen and don't try to make me feel better. I appreciate that. But I can also see that they don't always have the energy to talk about it like they would -- oh, say -- a divorce, a cheating husband, a crazy mother in law, but I guess I wouldn't either if I were them. I don't have as many close friends as I use to. I miss my old friends, too. I miss believing that my best friend (s) will always be there, no matter what. Like when you were a kid, you know?
As for the bus analogy . . . they think that they're bridging the great divide between their lives and ours. Like that's going to make us feel better. Instead it just alienates us more. Oh well. At least we all can be honest with each other. There's something to be said for that. Thanks for posting! It feels good to vent!
xoxo,
Kim
Thank you for venting, people need to hear it.
jan0
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