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1 yr since nephrectomy ct shows hematoma in the place of kidney

hannah814
Posts: 8
Joined: Jul 2005

It has been 1 year since I had a full nephrectomy. I still have severe flank pain so my family dr did another CT scan and it showed a hematoma has formed in the place of my kidney. Has anyone else had this? I also have an ovarian cyst which they are removing this week to see if my flank pain could be referred pain from that. But, if my pain doesnt go away my Dr said they might have to go in and biopsy the hematoma to make sure that it is a hematoma and not something else? My nephrectomy was not needed.... had a false ct/mri reading which said I had a tumor but I didnt. I had a healthy kidney removed. Now.... the statement of "to make sure that is what it is" kinda scares me. Could have my dr removed my kidney and left the tumor? Anyhow.... if you have any info or if you developed a hematoma after your surgery ... I would greatly appreciate knowing what was done for you. Thanks in advance.

KCFighter's picture
KCFighter
Posts: 50
Joined: Jan 2006

Hannah814, I think I've seen your previous postings talking about having a kidney removed unncessarily. Not sure if you sought a 2nd opinion at the time but, it is always wise to do so if surgery is recommended. Are you still seeing the same doctor who mistakenly took a healhty kidney? Is this who is telling you they want to do a biopsy? Personally, I would get a 2nd opinion & use that opportunity to begin a relationship with a new doctor. Good luck.

GregLW.
Posts: 8
Joined: Nov 2006

Hi,
Firstly your nephrectomy should NOT still be giving you pain a year doen the track - unless there is another reason! I had mine done (Left) full shark bite scar September 5th. 2001 - yes mine still gives me problems because due to an HAI my muscles were destroyed along with the nerves along side the spine so my wound is hurniated similarly to a football [Us Football] along the whole wound.

Yours should not still hurt without an identifiable cause.
On the subject of IDENTIFIABLE how come your Doctor was sooooo wrong? Is he still allowed to practice?
Perhaps that is why it is called a practice - sometimes I think they are precticing on me - so you aren't alone there.
I would strongly recommend you get yourself to a centre of excellence and have a full report done - even if you don't have the cash or cover I feel sure you can find a Lawyer either on pro bonno or contingency percentage to fund your case based on the damages likely from your first Doctor!
As for the hematoma GET A SECOND OPINION the clown who operated on your first kidney may have left something in there or inadequately sealed the vein or artery. It is stunningly unlikely your Doctor removed the health kidney but left the tumor but DO get another Doctor as you are fast running out of spares!

Good luck - I can empathise as I now have ongoing bladder cancer and a waist measurement that went from 32" to 48" due to the operative injury.
I'm in for a TURBT & TURP on Monday so won't be here from Sunday through Thursday.
Good luck but don't waste time get to a centre of excellence you had a spare kidney but life doesn't come with spares. The ovarian cyst doesn't sound that threatening and I would have thought they could have that out on keyhole surgery and you'd be up and running within a week!

Regards,
Greg L-W.

kewt
Posts: 3
Joined: Nov 2006

Dear Hannah
I am sorry to hear about your condition. I too was told that I had a hematoma that was causing my flank pain. Unfortunatly after the hematoma went away ( 1 year later ) the pain is still with me. I am not trying to be a downer, but there may be something else causing your problem and since your doctor removed a healthy kidney I would get a second or maybe a third opinion. Hope everything turns out okay. Please stay in touch since I as well have this problem.

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rae_rae
Posts: 267
Joined: Oct 2010

I am bringing this old post out of the dusty corners to discuss my hematoma (again) and see if anyone else is having issues.

As some of you may remember, I had the recurrence scare last summer with my first CT scan follow up six months after my radical nephrectomy of my left kidney. I had a mass around 4cm if I remember correctly. The doctors were positive it was cancer. I had a biospy and the conclusion was a hematoma. So they have been monitoring it to make sure it shrinks, and my last two CT scans showed slow shrinkage.

So fast forward to this past couple of weeks. I have started having pain in the area where my kidney was. It is constant, just under the ribs. I also feel some pain in my back, same area. It has continued to get worse...not severe but very uncomfortable. When I walk around I tend to place my hand over the area because of the discomfort. I was due for my CT so I figured I would wait before running willy nilly off to the doctors.

I got my results back today. The nurse called to tell me the area has remained stable instead of shrinking. Not that that is a major concern-if it had grown it would be more of a worry. I did make an appt. with my GP for next Thursday. What I am wondering is if anyone has had a hematoma that was still with them two years later. And the pain I am experiencing...any thoughts?

I do still have nerve pain along the incision. I suppose I always will. And it is still painful to get up and turn over from lying prone. It's more annoying than anything else. But this pain is new ...or new again...

Somedays I wonder if I will ever be free of surgery pain.

Rae

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foxhd
Posts: 1910
Joined: Oct 2011

rae-rae, that sounds just like my current pain. Continual. Under ribs on both sides. Sometimes it gets acute. I'm Back to percocets. I'll see what the radiation MD says on monday. I had a god sized hematoma after surgery that lasted for several months but it went away.

rae_rae's picture
rae_rae
Posts: 267
Joined: Oct 2010

I am glad to have read your pain has decreased a bit. I am still reading and thank you for your positive attitude. Whenever I need an attitude adjustment, I just come here.

I saw my GP today and as I figured, she recommended I go see my oncologist. I haven't seen him in almost a year. Laziness/hopeful thinking on my part - I just haven't wanted to go back. Anyhow, I obtained a copy of my radiology report, which I will post the impression here for anyone to take a stab at. There really doesn't appear to be anything too unusal. My doc said most hematomas will resolve within six months. She does think it's unusual for mine to be going on two years but also said it's a better question for a surgeon.

Impression:
1. Stable 4mm right lower lobe nodule, as described above (rt lower lobe along the major fissure)
2. No enlarged thoracic, abdominal, or pelvic lymph nodes :-)
3. No significant interval change within the previously identified soft tissue within the posterior left renal fossa. Findings are still concerning for residual/recurrent disease. The current measurements are smaller than the prior studies, however it is difficult to delineate the boundaries of this mass as it does abut the spleen. (it orginally was 5cm x 3cm last year, its 3cm x 2.8cm now, with shrinkage only a couple of mm from six months ago scan)
4.Stable region of fat stranding within the anterior aspect of the left lower quadrant. Findings may be postoperative (does this mean scar tissue?)
5. Stable right renal cyst (12mm, upper pole, also 5 mm interpolar region, low-attenuation lesion too small to characterize).

From my understanding, the cysts and nodule are unchanging. I am trying to figure out why I have had an increase in pain. Could the mass be irritating nearby organs? Any opinions appreciated. I will make an appt. with my oncologist soon.

Many thanks
Rae

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garym
Posts: 1651
Joined: Nov 2009

Hi Rae,

Purely a layman here, but what stands out to me no enlargement, no change, and stable, stable, stable. Seems to have all the ingredients of a good report. Hopefully the scanman will pick up on your post and give you a professional's opinion.

Hang in there,

Gary

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foxhd
Posts: 1910
Joined: Oct 2011

Rae-rae, I lost my post but I read the same thing. Stable disease. You are not dying from cancer. You are LIVING with it. Some day in the future when you pass, it probably will not have been from kidney cancer. It may still be scarey for the rookies on board but for us veterans that is excellent news. My wife and I had just been discussing this very thing. I remember when I met my current oncologist, she asked me if I would be happy if I could remain the same and not get worse even if she didn't "cure" me. I said "Damn YES!" Still feel the same about it.

rae_rae's picture
rae_rae
Posts: 267
Joined: Oct 2010

Fox and Gary,
Thank you for your replies. Yes i agree it's a good report! I hope to get some answers on my mass/pain once i see my oncologist

Texas_wedge's picture
Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

Rae, I have the same thoughts as Gary and Fox (and I couldn't ask for better company) and I'm really happy to hear your good news. I hope your oncologist can assure you that the incision pain will gradually subside and then disappear completely.

angec's picture
angec
Posts: 622
Joined: Mar 2012

Hi Rae Rae....did the scan light up in the area of hematomas? I noticed you said at first they swore it was cancer. My mom had surgery in march and her first six month scan shows two small masses adjacent to the clips on both sides where the kidney was. Was wondering if they can tell the difference. I noticed you got a biopsy. Would that somehow account for it being smaller? I hope things work out I your favor.

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GeorjeanParrish
Posts: 26
Joined: Oct 2011

Seems like I have heard that before

donna_lee's picture
donna_lee
Posts: 407
Joined: Feb 2009

You have the "classic strawberry birthmark" only it's on the inside. It is a cluster of cells that is very vascular.
I can't explain your pain, but I was diagnosed with one in the lower R. liver. It had showed up on a post nephrectomy CT and was causing concern because the original cancer had metastacised to the left half of my liver.
I went thru a series of frequent ultrasounds, with one that spent a great deal of time doing pix of the designated area. They could watch it fill and empty with the heart beat.

Now that they know it's there, they still can't/don't see any need to examine or remove it.

Good luck on tracking down your flank pain. Guess I was really lucky in that I didn't have that type of symptom.
Donna

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rae_rae
Posts: 267
Joined: Oct 2010

I saw my oncologist last week, and he was at a loss to why the mass is taking so long to shrink. He thought maybe it was a seroma (mass filled with serum or fluid is what he said). Previously diagnosed as a hematoma last year (mass with blood) by biospy. He wanted me to see my urologist to get another opinion, so I saw him today.

He also said he wasn't sure why it's taking so long and perhaps there was some packing material mixed in (to stop the bleeding when my spleen was nicked). Option A: let them poke around with a scope for a better look (and make sure the intestines weren't damaged) and maybe surgically remove the mass or Option B: wait and see what the next six months brings (hopefully more shrinkage and the pain will go away). I opted for B - if the pain doesn't decrease or increases then I will go in for a look see. In the meantime I will deal with the packing peanuts left behind!

foxhd's picture
foxhd
Posts: 1910
Joined: Oct 2011

I would wait a little longer too. But if there is something in there that was left behind.....WOW again. I never expect that kind of mistake.

Texas_wedge's picture
Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

Rae, I'm in a somewhat similar situation so we'll have to keep comparing notes. My guess is that the sarcomatoid change is reponsible and let's hope there's progress soon in knowing how to handle the consequences!

angec's picture
angec
Posts: 622
Joined: Mar 2012

Hi TW...how are you? Have you had any recent scans? What is this Seroma? I heard talk of that as well with mom. Hope you are doing well. Glad to see that Fox is doing great! I hope the new areas of interest are taken care of with the additional drug they gave him. Not to get off of the subject but i saw an Interesting article that I will post soon, about a virus that attacks the cancer.

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Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

Yes, it's very inspiring to see how well Fox is doing. Looking forward to seeing that article. I did, indeed, have a CT a couple of weeks ago - awaiting team analysis next week but it's thrown all of the balls up in the air - large new fluid accumulation, rapid increase in lymphadenopathy, chronic scarring in lungs - not exactly what we were hoping for. However, it all serves to reduce the survivor guilt :)

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angec
Posts: 622
Joined: Mar 2012

Hi TW, what a sigh of relief that you get a break from the survivor guilt! ;) Do you scan every three months now? I was not aware of the nodes issue. Are they just swollen or do they have suv readings? Mom might have hematomas also, but her first scan was in August since her surgery in march. She has two small nodes in her lungs and the two nodes by the kidney are there so it appears the surgeon didn't remove them after all. One is now 3 cm and the other 2 cm by the surgical clips. We are trying to figure out if the lung nodes were there before the surgery. The homeopathic seems to have slowed the growth. We will know better after the scan in November. Our doctor is not one for discussion so I want to take mom to Sloan for her next visit. I asked him questions and he got very defensive and I could tell he was uneasy. I was asking about the masses if they could be hematomas because I have heard that it happens and when it does the docs always think the worse. To what do they attribute the lung scarring?

I cannot find the article I was going to post but this one will give a general idea.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/31/us-cancer-virus-idUSTRE77U4NC20110831

In the meantime how is golf treating you?

Texas_wedge's picture
Texas_wedge
Posts: 2807
Joined: Nov 2011

Rae, do you ever go red (hair!) ?! I hardly recognised you. Glad to see that lovely smile.

Angie, has your Mom celebrated her 80th birthday yet? That would still be young in your circles and with you in her corner she'll live forever. What an immense amount of ground you've covered in leaving no stone unturned on her behalf! You've explored the entire spectrum. Has your homeopath continued to help? Just how many scans has your Mom had by now (many for her pancreas alone, if I'm remembering correctly?)? By now your Mom and I have a lot more in common than previously seemed to be the case!! That aside, I'll be very interested to hear of the opinion you'll be getting out of Sloan.

Thanks for the fascinating heads-up on progress with on oncoviruses. If you can find the original ref. that would be handy.

Thanks also for your enquiry after my situation. It seems to be nothing if not dynamic, with new nasty revelations showing up with increasing rapidity. I'm having a stock-taking morning in England. My Mother-in-Law died a couple of weeks ago which led to a dash to Johannesburg from which we returned on Wednesday to Aberdeen and I seem to have been driving most of the time since then (unfortunately not much of it on the golf course). I had a 500 mile drive yesterday to join my Wife and Daughter near London and will be driving for all of the next 4 days, visiting family in this part of the world before another 500m solo drive back home.

Still - (you asked about my golf) - I had one of the most enjoyable rounds in years on Friday at Carnoustie. After a week or two of rest the old weightlifting injury that's led to ' trigger-finger' in my left thumb was in abeyance and I was hitting dream drives. With a wind gusting around 40 m.p.h. we weren't bothered about scores - the good company of friends and the occasional glimpse of the sun were enough. (We could use the 'Texas wind-sock' here - 4 feet of heavy chain hung on a mast - when it's horizontal we say the wind's getting up. )

I'm getting CT with contrast every 3 months but they may elect to make it more frequent. I don't know about suv s - I have a host of questions to ask after the board has reviewed my case tomorrow morning. It will be a bit of a shock if I'm told I have idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis as well. It's never bothered my marathon running, rowing etc and I can't imagine what has caused "chronic scarring" - best guess would be farming pesticides but that's pure speculation.

My lymphadenopathy has increased dramatically in the past few weeks (regional nodes only, so far at least). The multi-disciplinary team discussion tomorrow may assess whether it's reactive or metastatic. The latter would obviously be very bad news but the major concern right now is a whole new encapsulated fluid accumulation in my abdominal wall and the radiology report labels this a "necrotic metastatic lesion" which is unexpected and unwelcome and probably explains an increasing discomfort around my lower right ribs. I was due to go to a nephew's wedding in WhitePlains in November but I guess that's now out of the question :( - c'est la vie I suppose.

Give your Mom my best wishes and stay in touch here.

rae_rae's picture
rae_rae
Posts: 267
Joined: Oct 2010

TW, I am a natural brunette but change my hair color like the wind changes direction - just because I can! (so yes, I tend to go some variation of red quite often).

So would your abdominal fluid be considered ascites? And you mentioned the lymphadenopathy might be reactive or metastatic - just wondering what they might be reactive from?

Angie, when I had my first CT scan July of 2011 (one year after my diagnosis and 9 months after surgery), the mass did light up. It was 4cm x 3cm (I had a typo in the previous post where I stated it was 5cm). I went to my doctors appointment and told "your cancer is back". I made an appointment with a new oncologist urologist that specializes in RCC and was told in no uncertain terms it was cancer and plans were made to start Sutent after the biopsy. He even said if the biospy showed it as not malignant that he would be highly skeptical. I had no reason to believe it wasn't cancer.

They now feel that as long as it is not growing that it is not cancer. If indeed your mom has hematomas or seromas, they will shrink (hopefully faster than mine). Also, I have no other signs of metastatic disease (no lymph involvement, no growing nodules, no new masses). So I continue with my scans every six months and hope my pain (and mass) goes away.

angec's picture
angec
Posts: 622
Joined: Mar 2012

Rae-Rae I am so happy to hear the mass was not cancer. So, then you did not start on Stutent as of yet? I would hold off as long as possible on that if you can. I was wondering if on your report from the scan they gave you the amount of SUV or the number. I though ti read you had two areas but that may have been someone else written above. Did you report actually say recurrent cancer or did it state hematoma? Just wondering because the doc told me they 100% of time can tell from the scan what it is and I see they were wrong with yours, happily. Everything else seems to check out great on your report and i am feeling like you will be ok. The signs are good. With mom they didn't even suggest a biopsy or even that she should have surgery to remove the two spots that are there. I guess if he would have removed them when he first did the surgery as we expected he would, then it wouldn't be an issue. I am glad things are looking good for you and pray that it will continue. I happen to like your hair color there, but I see dark Brown with Red highlights. :)

angec's picture
angec
Posts: 622
Joined: Mar 2012

TW.. you seem to have gotten right back on pace with your golfing! Hitting dream drives with that much wind sounds too good to be true! Go TW!! My husband's colleague did a par 3 recently on a hole that usually is par 5.

Mom has indeed turned 80 on Sept. 7th. She was sick with bronchitis but it was all good! Just to back up a little. She was diagnosed in January of this year with a 3 cm mass on her right kidney and at that time two lymph nodes by the kidney also lit up, so she had local mets. The surgeon went in, took the kidney and took the para node out in the center of the stomach. He did not take the two nodes near the kidney which is a mystery. They were about 1-1/2 cm's at that time i believe. The para node which did not show on the first scan was about 4cm itself at the time of surgery. So I believe it was good he took that one out at least, since it grew from not showing in the end of January to over 4cm when she had surgery in March. The original mass also grew quickly and in that short time was already 6 cms. Which is very, very fast!

She had only that one scan in January and then finally in August she had her second scan. Like I mentioned, she has been on the homeopathic meds from that BRILLIANT doctor who treats all kinds of cancer successfully all of this time and still continues on it. Now, this recent scan she still had the same two nodes as previously seen, they had grown only marginally, one is 2 cm and the other is 3 cm. So in nearly 7 months time the homeopathic med had totally slowed down the growth. Which is what it claims to do and even to stop it altogether. She has one small node about 1 cm in each lung. The homeopathic doctor thinks it may have been there before the surgery due to the para node being so large. He feels that the natural meds have helped slow it up and perhaps they are not still growing or growing slowly. It does take a little while for it to kick in. But given how they grew from January to March it stands to reason he is right about the meds working. THe problem is that she is on insulin and he feels insulin adds to the cancer cause since it is a hormone. I knew about this going in.

They wanted to put her on student right away but she refused. The reason being is that if the homeopathic meds are working, then starting the student would be unnecessary and safer. Her health is fairly good right now. She gained back all of the weight she lost and then some. Besides an unending cough (allergies, bronchitis) she seems to be doing fairly well. If you look at her, you wouldn't know she is sick. Has everyone gained their weight back or is that normally not an issue?

The oncologist has no idea she is on the homeopathic meds. He is sort of hinting that the growth is slow but won't admit it. He also says she looks very good and is surprised that she even gained weight. So he feels if she waits another 4 months to have a scan it still would be ok to start her meds then. She will re-scan in November towards the end.

TW I am confused! The mass is fluid accumulation but they label it a metastatic lesion? I wonder if they really know what anything is on the scans unless they go in and see for themselves. I mean look what happened with Rae-Rae. Which turned out well. I guess you will soon find out if they plan on going in for that to remove it. November is not too far off, perhaps this is all nothing and you can make the wedding. Let's see what they say. Please keep us posted. Praying for you!

I will search again for the original link about the virus that cures cancer!

I see I have rambled on here, didn't mean to. I blame it on this glaring migraine I have today ;) Wishing everyone good thoughts. Remember to take one day at a time, stop to smell the roses, laugh and keep going!

angec's picture
angec
Posts: 622
Joined: Mar 2012

TW.. where are my manners? I am so sorry to hear about the passing of your MIL. Love to the family.. xxoo

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