New Diagnosis - also age 40
Comments
-
Father a child?Trew said:Quality of Life?
If you are serious about wanting quality of life, then you realy need to look at proton therapy. Find my threado proton sites and begin looking seriously at this alterntive to surgery. It is amazing how many doctors are treated with proton therapy at Loma Linda University Medical Center in CA. A little expensive perhaps, but like one guy told it, its like the price of a new car and its worth the cost to me. He did not want to risk the side effects of surgery.
And after Proton therapy you can still father a child- impossible after surgery.
Really? I find this quite interesting? Can you direct me where I can read about this??0 -
Rad txSwingshiftworker said:We'll Just Have To Agree to Disagree
We'll just have to agree to disagree about when we consider surgery appropriate for prostate cancer. We are obviously at opposite ends on this issue.
Given all of the available alternatives (notably proton beam, cyberknife (and otherIMRTs), HIFU and brachytherapy) which are also not without risks but none as great IMHO as surgery, there's no reason why IMHO surgery needs to be the first choice.
The rational often advanced for choosing surgery first is because, if it doesn't work, you can still get radiation and you can't do that if you choose one of the radiation treatments. That's just not true.
If radiation treatment fails, you can still be retreated with the same or different alternative therapies and, if the treatments have been done w/precision sufficient to avoid collateral tissue damage, surgery is also still an option.
Of course, whether surgery is "necessary" depends on the stage and aggressiveness of the cancer. Surgery for late stage and aggressive cancer in combo w/radiation and chemo is probably the only choice but in that case, it is still the treatment of last resort.
So, from that perspective, I opt to view surgery as a last resort and will continue to advance that view point whenever it is appropriate to do so -- as I'm sure you'll do the opposite.
Regards!
I still feel that in a young man, radiation is not a good first choice. If my husband (God willing) has 30 more years on this earth, and he chose radiation as the first line of treatment, I would be extremely worried that he would develop a secondary cancer from the radiation itself. It is entirely possible.0 -
You might be hiding something?mrshisname said:Rad tx
I still feel that in a young man, radiation is not a good first choice. If my husband (God willing) has 30 more years on this earth, and he chose radiation as the first line of treatment, I would be extremely worried that he would develop a secondary cancer from the radiation itself. It is entirely possible.
The fact that you may have witnessed secondary cancer from radiation patients...I know my better half CCRN would have an opinion on this.
0 -
Learn all you can,
We all know that on top of the stress of being diagnosed with cancer is the additional stress of having to make a critical and irreversible treatment choice. Read all you can and talk to as many people as you can. Every provider will tell you what he does is the best, and they all seem to recommedn that you schedule their procedure immediately. But every treatment option has its advantages and disadvantages...and every choice has some nasty worst-case scenarios. It looks like you have some time. If I were in your situation I would think seriously of watchful waiting (different docs give it different labels).0 -
Preparing
My grandfather passed from PC that had spread, my father was diagnosed fairly young, so it's not really a surprise that I'm looking at surgery. I'll be 43 this year, so it's a sucky place to be, but I have a family to live for. I'm hoping I can live well, but "nerve sparing" for my dad didn't work so well. I'm lucky it was found somewhat early (my PSA had hit 3 after bouncing up and down), and 3 small spots out of 12 samples... now my real choice seems to be robotic or open, and wher to go. So far John's Hopkins is the winner0 -
Go for it - my situation is same like yoursBigMax said:Preparing
My grandfather passed from PC that had spread, my father was diagnosed fairly young, so it's not really a surprise that I'm looking at surgery. I'll be 43 this year, so it's a sucky place to be, but I have a family to live for. I'm hoping I can live well, but "nerve sparing" for my dad didn't work so well. I'm lucky it was found somewhat early (my PSA had hit 3 after bouncing up and down), and 3 small spots out of 12 samples... now my real choice seems to be robotic or open, and wher to go. So far John's Hopkins is the winner
My father and uncles have died painful deaths before 60 because of this beast and have several cousins who have chosen various option to treat it. I was diagnosed this year and got robotics surgery 7 weeks ago. My PSA was only 2.1 but biopsy was positive with a palpable nodule. Now it is 0. Back to normal now, fully continent and sex nearly back to normal with the blue pill. Best thing is to find the doc with most number of surgery and get yourself as physically fit as possible before surgery. The technology and recovery protocol today vastly superior than even a few years ago. We are lucky to have trapped the beast early in our life, so a young age is a good and not a sucky place!Good Luck0 -
bigmaxBigMax said:Preparing
My grandfather passed from PC that had spread, my father was diagnosed fairly young, so it's not really a surprise that I'm looking at surgery. I'll be 43 this year, so it's a sucky place to be, but I have a family to live for. I'm hoping I can live well, but "nerve sparing" for my dad didn't work so well. I'm lucky it was found somewhat early (my PSA had hit 3 after bouncing up and down), and 3 small spots out of 12 samples... now my real choice seems to be robotic or open, and wher to go. So far John's Hopkins is the winner
sorry to hear your family has had to contend with all that bull. i am 52 now and found out i had it when i was 51 so its a bummer anyway you look at it. i had the robotic on june 23rd and it went pretty good. i use only 1 pad a day so i am lucky for sure. anyway goodluck in what you choose. griff0 -
prep workgriff 1 said:bigmax
sorry to hear your family has had to contend with all that bull. i am 52 now and found out i had it when i was 51 so its a bummer anyway you look at it. i had the robotic on june 23rd and it went pretty good. i use only 1 pad a day so i am lucky for sure. anyway goodluck in what you choose. griff
BigMax,
Welcome to drinking from the firehose...
I was 47 when pegged, and I also chose surgery (DaVinci, Jan/2009). Nerves spared on both sides, all margins clear. I had a sling "installed" in Dec/2009 to assist with the incontinence issues. That helped a lot, although it's not a perfect solution and not without some side-effects. ED is still an issue, but things are improving (rapidly now). Even when the nerves are fully spared, it takes time for all little guys to heal and start talking to each other again. One to two years on average, and I've noticed a marked improvement at about the 1.5 year mark. It's almost like a "switch" was flipped.
As far as preparing... I would strongly advise any type of exercise for the pelvic floor. Sure, to do your kegels religiously, but walking (a lot) will do you wonders post-surgery. Basic common sense: the better shape you're in before surgery, the better shape you'll be in after surgery.
Note: laparoscopic surgery uses a gas to bloat you up (I think it's co2). A small percentage of patients (me) have trouble with the gas: it gets trapped in there and hurts like nothing you've ever had before. Oxycotin don't touch it. Morhpine won't help. Dilaudid neither. The *only* thing that will ease the pain of those gas bubbles is walking. Yep. Walking. Get a nurse, grab your IV/cath tree and start walking.
Lastly, try to get your head in shape. This process is going to eff you up. You're going to have "dark" days. You're going to question your choices. You're even going to think you made a "mistake". All that's normal and healthy. Get your mind prepared now, and it won't blow you out of the water when it happens... and it will happen.
cheers & beers,
Chris0 -
49 in Atlanta recently diagnosed with PCGatorDad said:prep work
BigMax,
Welcome to drinking from the firehose...
I was 47 when pegged, and I also chose surgery (DaVinci, Jan/2009). Nerves spared on both sides, all margins clear. I had a sling "installed" in Dec/2009 to assist with the incontinence issues. That helped a lot, although it's not a perfect solution and not without some side-effects. ED is still an issue, but things are improving (rapidly now). Even when the nerves are fully spared, it takes time for all little guys to heal and start talking to each other again. One to two years on average, and I've noticed a marked improvement at about the 1.5 year mark. It's almost like a "switch" was flipped.
As far as preparing... I would strongly advise any type of exercise for the pelvic floor. Sure, to do your kegels religiously, but walking (a lot) will do you wonders post-surgery. Basic common sense: the better shape you're in before surgery, the better shape you'll be in after surgery.
Note: laparoscopic surgery uses a gas to bloat you up (I think it's co2). A small percentage of patients (me) have trouble with the gas: it gets trapped in there and hurts like nothing you've ever had before. Oxycotin don't touch it. Morhpine won't help. Dilaudid neither. The *only* thing that will ease the pain of those gas bubbles is walking. Yep. Walking. Get a nurse, grab your IV/cath tree and start walking.
Lastly, try to get your head in shape. This process is going to eff you up. You're going to have "dark" days. You're going to question your choices. You're even going to think you made a "mistake". All that's normal and healthy. Get your mind prepared now, and it won't blow you out of the water when it happens... and it will happen.
cheers & beers,
Chris
I was diagnosed with PC about a month ago and have been to 3 diff Drs. My PSA went from a high of 19 to 11 to 7 to 4.7 after 6 weeks of Cypro Rx and while it never got to the "average" 3-4, my regular Dr sent me to a Urologist who did a biopsy and showed a Gleason score of 3+3 = 6. The first Urologist said my Prostate was too enlarge to have any other kind of treatment, only the radical open and remove. I had already begun my research on line and knew there are hormone treatments that can reduce the size of prostate and possibly be a candidate for robotic surgery, as I heard that the radical takes longer to heal, more nerve damages, leakage (have a catheter for 12 weeks! and poss pads), ED most likely... not the news a 49 yr old or any age wants to hear! The Dr knew I was not going to sign up for surgery so quick, so he did refer me to another Dr in same group (was hesitant since same group)but I went. This 2nd Dr said he could do the robotic and not to worry about the size of prostate. Still not sold on anything, I continued my research and found out about ProstRcision. With just these two high lights listed below from their booklet, it was a no brainer for me. No leakage and best chance of keeping your "manhood" going... they have kept a ten year record of over 12,000 surgeries and you can talk to any of their patients. Oh and by the way, you can have prostate removed after radiation, should it be necessary. Most Urologists say you can't... truth is, they can't, but an expert highly skilled Urologist can. Out of the 12,000 surgeries since 1979, only 1 patient had to have his prostate removed after radiation, and he is doing fine.
I have been down since learning of my PC, until I met Dr. Critz and learned about PostRcision and now am upbeat about my choice! We can all agree to research your options. It is your body, your health, your decision. Hope this info helps.
http://storage.pardot.com/1174/29064/Q_A_Cancer_Free_Guide.pdf
Compare ProstRcision with radical
prostatectomy, whether open, laparoscopic
or robotic.
A: The goal of ProstRcision and radical
prostatectomy is the same: destroy all prostate
cancer cells and normal prostate cells. The PSA goal
of ProstRcision and radical prostatectomy is also the
same: achieve PSA 0.2 ng/ml or less after treatment
and remain at PSA 0.2 ng/ml forever with cure
rates measured 10 years following treatment.
However, there is considerable difference in how
ProstRcision and radical prostatectomy work to
achieve these goals. With radical prostatectomy,
the entire prostate gland is surgically removed with
critical dissection at the apex, while striving to leave
the muscles that control urination and preserve
sex nerves. In contrast, ProstRcision destroys all
prostate cancer and normal prostate cells without
removing the urethra or damaging muscles that
control urination. Additionally, the sex nerves often
remain intact. A wider area around the prostate
is treated with ProstRcision than with radical
prostatectomy. Consequently, there is a difference
in results, especially with regard to three issues:
microscopic capsule penetration (particularly at the
apex), urinary leakage and the rate of PSA fall after
treatment.
Q: Is there a difference in urinary
leakage between ProstRcision and
radical prostatectomy?
A: Yes. Since the most critical part of a
radical prostatectomy is removing the apex
of the prostate where microscopic capsule
penetration is most common, and one of
the large muscles that control urination is
located there, this muscle could be cut out at
surgery. This is the primary cause for 8–17%
of men experiencing leakage after radical
prostatectomy, including the robotic or da
Vinci® technique.34,35,36, 37 With ProstRcision,
there is no urinary leakage because the muscle
at the apex of the prostate is not removed.
The only exception to this observation is if
men, prior to ProstRcision have had a TURP
(roto-rooter operation) where the other large
muscle (the bladder neck muscle) has been
removed, or in men who have severe urinary
urgency such that they leak urine before they
get to the toilet.0 -
Mark in Atlanta,Mark in Atlanta 49 said:49 in Atlanta recently diagnosed with PC
I was diagnosed with PC about a month ago and have been to 3 diff Drs. My PSA went from a high of 19 to 11 to 7 to 4.7 after 6 weeks of Cypro Rx and while it never got to the "average" 3-4, my regular Dr sent me to a Urologist who did a biopsy and showed a Gleason score of 3+3 = 6. The first Urologist said my Prostate was too enlarge to have any other kind of treatment, only the radical open and remove. I had already begun my research on line and knew there are hormone treatments that can reduce the size of prostate and possibly be a candidate for robotic surgery, as I heard that the radical takes longer to heal, more nerve damages, leakage (have a catheter for 12 weeks! and poss pads), ED most likely... not the news a 49 yr old or any age wants to hear! The Dr knew I was not going to sign up for surgery so quick, so he did refer me to another Dr in same group (was hesitant since same group)but I went. This 2nd Dr said he could do the robotic and not to worry about the size of prostate. Still not sold on anything, I continued my research and found out about ProstRcision. With just these two high lights listed below from their booklet, it was a no brainer for me. No leakage and best chance of keeping your "manhood" going... they have kept a ten year record of over 12,000 surgeries and you can talk to any of their patients. Oh and by the way, you can have prostate removed after radiation, should it be necessary. Most Urologists say you can't... truth is, they can't, but an expert highly skilled Urologist can. Out of the 12,000 surgeries since 1979, only 1 patient had to have his prostate removed after radiation, and he is doing fine.
I have been down since learning of my PC, until I met Dr. Critz and learned about PostRcision and now am upbeat about my choice! We can all agree to research your options. It is your body, your health, your decision. Hope this info helps.
http://storage.pardot.com/1174/29064/Q_A_Cancer_Free_Guide.pdf
Compare ProstRcision with radical
prostatectomy, whether open, laparoscopic
or robotic.
A: The goal of ProstRcision and radical
prostatectomy is the same: destroy all prostate
cancer cells and normal prostate cells. The PSA goal
of ProstRcision and radical prostatectomy is also the
same: achieve PSA 0.2 ng/ml or less after treatment
and remain at PSA 0.2 ng/ml forever with cure
rates measured 10 years following treatment.
However, there is considerable difference in how
ProstRcision and radical prostatectomy work to
achieve these goals. With radical prostatectomy,
the entire prostate gland is surgically removed with
critical dissection at the apex, while striving to leave
the muscles that control urination and preserve
sex nerves. In contrast, ProstRcision destroys all
prostate cancer and normal prostate cells without
removing the urethra or damaging muscles that
control urination. Additionally, the sex nerves often
remain intact. A wider area around the prostate
is treated with ProstRcision than with radical
prostatectomy. Consequently, there is a difference
in results, especially with regard to three issues:
microscopic capsule penetration (particularly at the
apex), urinary leakage and the rate of PSA fall after
treatment.
Q: Is there a difference in urinary
leakage between ProstRcision and
radical prostatectomy?
A: Yes. Since the most critical part of a
radical prostatectomy is removing the apex
of the prostate where microscopic capsule
penetration is most common, and one of
the large muscles that control urination is
located there, this muscle could be cut out at
surgery. This is the primary cause for 8–17%
of men experiencing leakage after radical
prostatectomy, including the robotic or da
Vinci® technique.34,35,36, 37 With ProstRcision,
there is no urinary leakage because the muscle
at the apex of the prostate is not removed.
The only exception to this observation is if
men, prior to ProstRcision have had a TURP
(roto-rooter operation) where the other large
muscle (the bladder neck muscle) has been
removed, or in men who have severe urinary
urgency such that they leak urine before they
get to the toilet.
Yes it is
Mark in Atlanta,
Yes it is very important to make a well researched decision on the type of treatment you receive or not as this is a personal choice.
You have a few facts wrong about surgery and radiation treatments in general and I would suggest that you do some further research in general for yourself as this is a onetime decision with not retakes…
Being from Atlanta I see Dr. Critz Billboards around the city and I am very familiar with his PostRcision radiation system. I did complete review all of his literature and talk with his group about this process.
I wish you the best in your journey and your selection for treatment…This is for sure a not a one fits all size sort of decision0 -
you said "You have a fewbdhilton said:Mark in Atlanta,
Yes it is
Mark in Atlanta,
Yes it is very important to make a well researched decision on the type of treatment you receive or not as this is a personal choice.
You have a few facts wrong about surgery and radiation treatments in general and I would suggest that you do some further research in general for yourself as this is a onetime decision with not retakes…
Being from Atlanta I see Dr. Critz Billboards around the city and I am very familiar with his PostRcision radiation system. I did complete review all of his literature and talk with his group about this process.
I wish you the best in your journey and your selection for treatment…This is for sure a not a one fits all size sort of decision
you said "You have a few facts wrong about surgery and radiation treatments in general"... please state what you think it is... what I have stated above IS ACCURATE on my research findings. Of course one shouldn't believe everything he/she reads and hears whether on here or elsewhere.0 -
I can recommend many booksMark in Atlanta 49 said:49 in Atlanta recently diagnosed with PC
I was diagnosed with PC about a month ago and have been to 3 diff Drs. My PSA went from a high of 19 to 11 to 7 to 4.7 after 6 weeks of Cypro Rx and while it never got to the "average" 3-4, my regular Dr sent me to a Urologist who did a biopsy and showed a Gleason score of 3+3 = 6. The first Urologist said my Prostate was too enlarge to have any other kind of treatment, only the radical open and remove. I had already begun my research on line and knew there are hormone treatments that can reduce the size of prostate and possibly be a candidate for robotic surgery, as I heard that the radical takes longer to heal, more nerve damages, leakage (have a catheter for 12 weeks! and poss pads), ED most likely... not the news a 49 yr old or any age wants to hear! The Dr knew I was not going to sign up for surgery so quick, so he did refer me to another Dr in same group (was hesitant since same group)but I went. This 2nd Dr said he could do the robotic and not to worry about the size of prostate. Still not sold on anything, I continued my research and found out about ProstRcision. With just these two high lights listed below from their booklet, it was a no brainer for me. No leakage and best chance of keeping your "manhood" going... they have kept a ten year record of over 12,000 surgeries and you can talk to any of their patients. Oh and by the way, you can have prostate removed after radiation, should it be necessary. Most Urologists say you can't... truth is, they can't, but an expert highly skilled Urologist can. Out of the 12,000 surgeries since 1979, only 1 patient had to have his prostate removed after radiation, and he is doing fine.
I have been down since learning of my PC, until I met Dr. Critz and learned about PostRcision and now am upbeat about my choice! We can all agree to research your options. It is your body, your health, your decision. Hope this info helps.
http://storage.pardot.com/1174/29064/Q_A_Cancer_Free_Guide.pdf
Compare ProstRcision with radical
prostatectomy, whether open, laparoscopic
or robotic.
A: The goal of ProstRcision and radical
prostatectomy is the same: destroy all prostate
cancer cells and normal prostate cells. The PSA goal
of ProstRcision and radical prostatectomy is also the
same: achieve PSA 0.2 ng/ml or less after treatment
and remain at PSA 0.2 ng/ml forever with cure
rates measured 10 years following treatment.
However, there is considerable difference in how
ProstRcision and radical prostatectomy work to
achieve these goals. With radical prostatectomy,
the entire prostate gland is surgically removed with
critical dissection at the apex, while striving to leave
the muscles that control urination and preserve
sex nerves. In contrast, ProstRcision destroys all
prostate cancer and normal prostate cells without
removing the urethra or damaging muscles that
control urination. Additionally, the sex nerves often
remain intact. A wider area around the prostate
is treated with ProstRcision than with radical
prostatectomy. Consequently, there is a difference
in results, especially with regard to three issues:
microscopic capsule penetration (particularly at the
apex), urinary leakage and the rate of PSA fall after
treatment.
Q: Is there a difference in urinary
leakage between ProstRcision and
radical prostatectomy?
A: Yes. Since the most critical part of a
radical prostatectomy is removing the apex
of the prostate where microscopic capsule
penetration is most common, and one of
the large muscles that control urination is
located there, this muscle could be cut out at
surgery. This is the primary cause for 8–17%
of men experiencing leakage after radical
prostatectomy, including the robotic or da
Vinci® technique.34,35,36, 37 With ProstRcision,
there is no urinary leakage because the muscle
at the apex of the prostate is not removed.
The only exception to this observation is if
men, prior to ProstRcision have had a TURP
(roto-rooter operation) where the other large
muscle (the bladder neck muscle) has been
removed, or in men who have severe urinary
urgency such that they leak urine before they
get to the toilet.
I can recommend many books but I would suggest the following few to get a sense of what you are getting into:
Guide to Surviving Prostate Cancer by Walsh
Invasion of the Prostate Snatchers as Kongo suggest
Saving your sex life by Mulhal
About your facts..
I do not have time to go through your entire post but two are:
I do not know of anyone that had a catheter in for 12 weeks perhaps 12 days (surgery or robotics) but I guess it is possible. I have not leaked a drop since the day they took the cath out but I do hear of many guys that suffer with this issue…
You say you made a decision based on “With just these two high lights listed below from their booklet, it was a no brainer for me. No leakage and best chance of keeping your "manhood" going...” Well, most side effects from radiation come after a year or so after treatment. I am sure many here would be happy to share stories with you plus this information is readily available…
This might be the best choice for you and if this is what you have decided then the best of luck. I am suggesting that you dig a little deeper and compare the facts…You just might decide to watch and wait…
Again, I wish you the best and we can all related to receiving the “bad news” about our PCa…0 -
Agree with BDbdhilton said:I can recommend many books
I can recommend many books but I would suggest the following few to get a sense of what you are getting into:
Guide to Surviving Prostate Cancer by Walsh
Invasion of the Prostate Snatchers as Kongo suggest
Saving your sex life by Mulhal
About your facts..
I do not have time to go through your entire post but two are:
I do not know of anyone that had a catheter in for 12 weeks perhaps 12 days (surgery or robotics) but I guess it is possible. I have not leaked a drop since the day they took the cath out but I do hear of many guys that suffer with this issue…
You say you made a decision based on “With just these two high lights listed below from their booklet, it was a no brainer for me. No leakage and best chance of keeping your "manhood" going...” Well, most side effects from radiation come after a year or so after treatment. I am sure many here would be happy to share stories with you plus this information is readily available…
This might be the best choice for you and if this is what you have decided then the best of luck. I am suggesting that you dig a little deeper and compare the facts…You just might decide to watch and wait…
Again, I wish you the best and we can all related to receiving the “bad news” about our PCa…
I agree with BD on this one (shock, awe, gasp of disbelief from regular readers --- we actually agree on more than we disagree on). 12 weeks for a catheter seems to be highly exaggerated. Also, side effects do certainly occur with radiation. A seed placed too close to the urethrea or colon can cause a lot of issues.
The nerve sparing is often glossed over both in RP and radiation treatments. The nerves in question are about the size of a human hair. Certainly they can be damaged through surgery but also radiation and, as BD points out, radiological impact on ED may take years to manifest itself and there is about 15% chance of an inability to achieve an erection with even the most modern types of radiation delivery (such as SBRT). Fortunately, for those of us who chose to be microwaved, most can regain potency through Vitamin V or other erectile enhancing medication where those who have surgery and lost their nerves need more physical methods to achieve suitable erections.
In any event, for a man your age with a low risk cancer there is a high liklihood that if you are potent before any form of treatment you have much higher liklihood of being potent afterward. Same analogy for continence.
But be careful about ED statistics. Most men who are diagnosed with PCa are in their early to mid-sixties (although as mentioned earlier more and more men in their 50s or late 40s are being diagnosed). As men get older, their libido is usually going to decrease, although there are always going to be a few old bulls who never seem to come down. It's hard to measure, particularly over the long term as men grow older while having prostate cancer whether a decrease in the ability to achieve an erection is a function of the treatment or a natural course of growing old.0 -
WelcomeMark in Atlanta 49 said:49 in Atlanta recently diagnosed with PC
I was diagnosed with PC about a month ago and have been to 3 diff Drs. My PSA went from a high of 19 to 11 to 7 to 4.7 after 6 weeks of Cypro Rx and while it never got to the "average" 3-4, my regular Dr sent me to a Urologist who did a biopsy and showed a Gleason score of 3+3 = 6. The first Urologist said my Prostate was too enlarge to have any other kind of treatment, only the radical open and remove. I had already begun my research on line and knew there are hormone treatments that can reduce the size of prostate and possibly be a candidate for robotic surgery, as I heard that the radical takes longer to heal, more nerve damages, leakage (have a catheter for 12 weeks! and poss pads), ED most likely... not the news a 49 yr old or any age wants to hear! The Dr knew I was not going to sign up for surgery so quick, so he did refer me to another Dr in same group (was hesitant since same group)but I went. This 2nd Dr said he could do the robotic and not to worry about the size of prostate. Still not sold on anything, I continued my research and found out about ProstRcision. With just these two high lights listed below from their booklet, it was a no brainer for me. No leakage and best chance of keeping your "manhood" going... they have kept a ten year record of over 12,000 surgeries and you can talk to any of their patients. Oh and by the way, you can have prostate removed after radiation, should it be necessary. Most Urologists say you can't... truth is, they can't, but an expert highly skilled Urologist can. Out of the 12,000 surgeries since 1979, only 1 patient had to have his prostate removed after radiation, and he is doing fine.
I have been down since learning of my PC, until I met Dr. Critz and learned about PostRcision and now am upbeat about my choice! We can all agree to research your options. It is your body, your health, your decision. Hope this info helps.
http://storage.pardot.com/1174/29064/Q_A_Cancer_Free_Guide.pdf
Compare ProstRcision with radical
prostatectomy, whether open, laparoscopic
or robotic.
A: The goal of ProstRcision and radical
prostatectomy is the same: destroy all prostate
cancer cells and normal prostate cells. The PSA goal
of ProstRcision and radical prostatectomy is also the
same: achieve PSA 0.2 ng/ml or less after treatment
and remain at PSA 0.2 ng/ml forever with cure
rates measured 10 years following treatment.
However, there is considerable difference in how
ProstRcision and radical prostatectomy work to
achieve these goals. With radical prostatectomy,
the entire prostate gland is surgically removed with
critical dissection at the apex, while striving to leave
the muscles that control urination and preserve
sex nerves. In contrast, ProstRcision destroys all
prostate cancer and normal prostate cells without
removing the urethra or damaging muscles that
control urination. Additionally, the sex nerves often
remain intact. A wider area around the prostate
is treated with ProstRcision than with radical
prostatectomy. Consequently, there is a difference
in results, especially with regard to three issues:
microscopic capsule penetration (particularly at the
apex), urinary leakage and the rate of PSA fall after
treatment.
Q: Is there a difference in urinary
leakage between ProstRcision and
radical prostatectomy?
A: Yes. Since the most critical part of a
radical prostatectomy is removing the apex
of the prostate where microscopic capsule
penetration is most common, and one of
the large muscles that control urination is
located there, this muscle could be cut out at
surgery. This is the primary cause for 8–17%
of men experiencing leakage after radical
prostatectomy, including the robotic or da
Vinci® technique.34,35,36, 37 With ProstRcision,
there is no urinary leakage because the muscle
at the apex of the prostate is not removed.
The only exception to this observation is if
men, prior to ProstRcision have had a TURP
(roto-rooter operation) where the other large
muscle (the bladder neck muscle) has been
removed, or in men who have severe urinary
urgency such that they leak urine before they
get to the toilet.
Mark,
Welcome to the forum but you have to sit in the young adult section! Seriously, it is a cruel twist to have been diagnosed so young although with the more widespread use of PSA testing more and more younger men are being diagnosed much earlier than before.
The good news about that statistic is that you have a number of attractive options, including the one you mentioned involving the ProstRcision process. You have the additional advantage in being co-located with the treatment facility while most who use it must travel to receive treatment.
I know they have posted impressive statistics and I also researched it during my own investigative phase. In the end, my only negative view of their process (and its only slightly negative) is that brachytherapy seeds seem to have more incidence of toxicity (both urine and bowel) than more modern means of delivering radiation externally through an SBRT process. I also thought their marketing hype was a bit too much on the hard sell side and disagree with their claim that it has the lowest rate of side effects. And I'm instantly on guard when any group that claims to be the best or that I need go no farther to find my ansers. As you know by now, seeds have been around a long time but they really became mainstream in the 90s. I feel that there are better ways today to achieve the same dosage levels with fewer potential side effects with other forms of radiation, although I am sure the doctors at the center will rely heavily on their long term statistics to counter that suggestion.
From the conditions you described, it is likely that your elevated PSA levels were caused by BPH or even prostatitus and they happened to find cancer during the biopsy. Had your prostate not been bothering you, it may have been years before PCa was discovered, if ever. Now that you know you have it, I am sure you feel you have to do something about it. I know I did. There is a great book I read over the weekend called "Invasion of the Prostate Snatchers" by Ralph Blum and Mark Sholtz, MD that makes a strong case for active surveillance for men with low risk prostate cancer. I would commend it to you as you consider all options in sorting out your treatment. I too chose a treatment course, but I think I could have done AS with acceptable long term results. But, as one doctor told me, "this isn't going to kill you, but at your age (I was 59) you're going to have to deal with it sooner or later." AS also means a rigorous ongoing protocol of lifestyle and diet changes, frequent PSA testing, multiple biopsies, and an undercurrent of anxiety that is always with you. On the other hand, studies have shown that if you follow the protocol faithfully, it has the lowest side effects of any treatment and that if conditions change, you have time to take a course of action that can effectively deal with it. For many men, they never have to take a course of treatment at all.
In any event, you're smart to investigate many options. This is one of those diseases that the more you learn, the less you realize you know. Early after my diagnosis I thought I had it all figured out but I now realize there were volumes and volumes of informatino I didn't take into consideration when I made my decision and I continue to learn more about it every day.
Keep us posted as to how things turn out.
===============================
Diagnosis in March 2010. Age at Dx: 59 PSA at Dx: 4.3 which dropped to 2.8 before treatment after elimination of dairy. Gleason 3+3=6. 1 of 12 biopsy cores positive with 15% involvement. DRE normal. No history of PCa in family and no physical symptoms. Stage: T1c
Treatment: SBRT delivered by CyberKnife system in June 2010. 5 sessions of 40 minutes each every other day. Side effects to date: Zero0 -
MarkMark in Atlanta 49 said:49 in Atlanta recently diagnosed with PC
I was diagnosed with PC about a month ago and have been to 3 diff Drs. My PSA went from a high of 19 to 11 to 7 to 4.7 after 6 weeks of Cypro Rx and while it never got to the "average" 3-4, my regular Dr sent me to a Urologist who did a biopsy and showed a Gleason score of 3+3 = 6. The first Urologist said my Prostate was too enlarge to have any other kind of treatment, only the radical open and remove. I had already begun my research on line and knew there are hormone treatments that can reduce the size of prostate and possibly be a candidate for robotic surgery, as I heard that the radical takes longer to heal, more nerve damages, leakage (have a catheter for 12 weeks! and poss pads), ED most likely... not the news a 49 yr old or any age wants to hear! The Dr knew I was not going to sign up for surgery so quick, so he did refer me to another Dr in same group (was hesitant since same group)but I went. This 2nd Dr said he could do the robotic and not to worry about the size of prostate. Still not sold on anything, I continued my research and found out about ProstRcision. With just these two high lights listed below from their booklet, it was a no brainer for me. No leakage and best chance of keeping your "manhood" going... they have kept a ten year record of over 12,000 surgeries and you can talk to any of their patients. Oh and by the way, you can have prostate removed after radiation, should it be necessary. Most Urologists say you can't... truth is, they can't, but an expert highly skilled Urologist can. Out of the 12,000 surgeries since 1979, only 1 patient had to have his prostate removed after radiation, and he is doing fine.
I have been down since learning of my PC, until I met Dr. Critz and learned about PostRcision and now am upbeat about my choice! We can all agree to research your options. It is your body, your health, your decision. Hope this info helps.
http://storage.pardot.com/1174/29064/Q_A_Cancer_Free_Guide.pdf
Compare ProstRcision with radical
prostatectomy, whether open, laparoscopic
or robotic.
A: The goal of ProstRcision and radical
prostatectomy is the same: destroy all prostate
cancer cells and normal prostate cells. The PSA goal
of ProstRcision and radical prostatectomy is also the
same: achieve PSA 0.2 ng/ml or less after treatment
and remain at PSA 0.2 ng/ml forever with cure
rates measured 10 years following treatment.
However, there is considerable difference in how
ProstRcision and radical prostatectomy work to
achieve these goals. With radical prostatectomy,
the entire prostate gland is surgically removed with
critical dissection at the apex, while striving to leave
the muscles that control urination and preserve
sex nerves. In contrast, ProstRcision destroys all
prostate cancer and normal prostate cells without
removing the urethra or damaging muscles that
control urination. Additionally, the sex nerves often
remain intact. A wider area around the prostate
is treated with ProstRcision than with radical
prostatectomy. Consequently, there is a difference
in results, especially with regard to three issues:
microscopic capsule penetration (particularly at the
apex), urinary leakage and the rate of PSA fall after
treatment.
Q: Is there a difference in urinary
leakage between ProstRcision and
radical prostatectomy?
A: Yes. Since the most critical part of a
radical prostatectomy is removing the apex
of the prostate where microscopic capsule
penetration is most common, and one of
the large muscles that control urination is
located there, this muscle could be cut out at
surgery. This is the primary cause for 8–17%
of men experiencing leakage after radical
prostatectomy, including the robotic or da
Vinci® technique.34,35,36, 37 With ProstRcision,
there is no urinary leakage because the muscle
at the apex of the prostate is not removed.
The only exception to this observation is if
men, prior to ProstRcision have had a TURP
(roto-rooter operation) where the other large
muscle (the bladder neck muscle) has been
removed, or in men who have severe urinary
urgency such that they leak urine before they
get to the toilet.
I'm sorry to hear about your diagnois....we all have gone thru depression and all the feeling associated with it. this generally last a few months.
Can you please provide more information about your condition. How many cores were taken in your biopsy; how many were positive, what was the geason of each, and what was the involvement of each, that is what percent of the core was cancerous? Do you have PSA results from previous years?....all this information can helf you decide the best treatment for you.
By the way is is a very good idea to get a second opinion about your pathology from a pathologist that is an expert in the field. Determining the gleason is very complicated, so it is important to contact an expert in this.........there are about 10 in the united states.
As was mentioned, I recommend that you do more research about this beast, since most of yor statements are not accurate. Not trying to disrespect you, but this is too important for me not to mention this.
I have been doing active surveillance for about 1 and half years now.....if you wish you can click on my name and read what I have done, suggested tests, and a study that documents why AS is appropriate for some.
Mark,,,,,,,we are hear for you so keep o posting
Ira0 -
Some comments about AS in your postKongo said:Welcome
Mark,
Welcome to the forum but you have to sit in the young adult section! Seriously, it is a cruel twist to have been diagnosed so young although with the more widespread use of PSA testing more and more younger men are being diagnosed much earlier than before.
The good news about that statistic is that you have a number of attractive options, including the one you mentioned involving the ProstRcision process. You have the additional advantage in being co-located with the treatment facility while most who use it must travel to receive treatment.
I know they have posted impressive statistics and I also researched it during my own investigative phase. In the end, my only negative view of their process (and its only slightly negative) is that brachytherapy seeds seem to have more incidence of toxicity (both urine and bowel) than more modern means of delivering radiation externally through an SBRT process. I also thought their marketing hype was a bit too much on the hard sell side and disagree with their claim that it has the lowest rate of side effects. And I'm instantly on guard when any group that claims to be the best or that I need go no farther to find my ansers. As you know by now, seeds have been around a long time but they really became mainstream in the 90s. I feel that there are better ways today to achieve the same dosage levels with fewer potential side effects with other forms of radiation, although I am sure the doctors at the center will rely heavily on their long term statistics to counter that suggestion.
From the conditions you described, it is likely that your elevated PSA levels were caused by BPH or even prostatitus and they happened to find cancer during the biopsy. Had your prostate not been bothering you, it may have been years before PCa was discovered, if ever. Now that you know you have it, I am sure you feel you have to do something about it. I know I did. There is a great book I read over the weekend called "Invasion of the Prostate Snatchers" by Ralph Blum and Mark Sholtz, MD that makes a strong case for active surveillance for men with low risk prostate cancer. I would commend it to you as you consider all options in sorting out your treatment. I too chose a treatment course, but I think I could have done AS with acceptable long term results. But, as one doctor told me, "this isn't going to kill you, but at your age (I was 59) you're going to have to deal with it sooner or later." AS also means a rigorous ongoing protocol of lifestyle and diet changes, frequent PSA testing, multiple biopsies, and an undercurrent of anxiety that is always with you. On the other hand, studies have shown that if you follow the protocol faithfully, it has the lowest side effects of any treatment and that if conditions change, you have time to take a course of action that can effectively deal with it. For many men, they never have to take a course of treatment at all.
In any event, you're smart to investigate many options. This is one of those diseases that the more you learn, the less you realize you know. Early after my diagnosis I thought I had it all figured out but I now realize there were volumes and volumes of informatino I didn't take into consideration when I made my decision and I continue to learn more about it every day.
Keep us posted as to how things turn out.
===============================
Diagnosis in March 2010. Age at Dx: 59 PSA at Dx: 4.3 which dropped to 2.8 before treatment after elimination of dairy. Gleason 3+3=6. 1 of 12 biopsy cores positive with 15% involvement. DRE normal. No history of PCa in family and no physical symptoms. Stage: T1c
Treatment: SBRT delivered by CyberKnife system in June 2010. 5 sessions of 40 minutes each every other day. Side effects to date: Zero
"But, as one doctor told me, "this isn't going to kill you, but at your age (I was 59) you're going to have to deal with it sooner or later." "
Yes it is possible that one may have to deal with it, however many do not...there was a study done in a major city where it was determined that many men died with prostate cancer, not because of the disease.....this pretty much is the reasoning for the active surveillance treatment option......please forive me but I do not recall the specific study where they did these autopsies. (it coulda been in Phidelphia)
" AS also means a rigorous ongoing protocol of lifestyle and diet changes,"
Actually one who lives a heart healthy life style is doing what is required for active surveillance or any other PC treatment option. This life style is critical since heart disease is by far the major killer of men. Incidently, men with PC as a group live longer than the rest of the male population because many have made this change.
"PSA testing, multiple biopsies, and an undercurrent of anxiety that is always with you."
In my case I get a PSA test twice a year. The average male needs to get at least one a year....it's a simple blood test.
Well yes , lots of biopsies, although there are many men on AS who do not and elect other methods, however I choose biopsies and MRI's as well.....I have agree with you and say lots of tests.
As far as anxiety, one of my docs who is a surgeon told me that if I am going to stress , he can do an operation with a 99 percent chance of success.....so anyway one has to have a no stress attitude, and go on enjoying life, or seek active treatment.
"it has the lowest side effects of any treatment and that if conditions change, you have time to take a course of action that can effectively deal with it. For many men, they never have to take a course of treatment at all."
Agree..additionally AS results for localized prostate cancer that has a low gleason and small volume compare favorably with other treatment options over time.......I remember reading a comparison for 15 years forward.
cheers,
Ira0 -
Irahopeful and optimistic said:Some comments about AS in your post
"But, as one doctor told me, "this isn't going to kill you, but at your age (I was 59) you're going to have to deal with it sooner or later." "
Yes it is possible that one may have to deal with it, however many do not...there was a study done in a major city where it was determined that many men died with prostate cancer, not because of the disease.....this pretty much is the reasoning for the active surveillance treatment option......please forive me but I do not recall the specific study where they did these autopsies. (it coulda been in Phidelphia)
" AS also means a rigorous ongoing protocol of lifestyle and diet changes,"
Actually one who lives a heart healthy life style is doing what is required for active surveillance or any other PC treatment option. This life style is critical since heart disease is by far the major killer of men. Incidently, men with PC as a group live longer than the rest of the male population because many have made this change.
"PSA testing, multiple biopsies, and an undercurrent of anxiety that is always with you."
In my case I get a PSA test twice a year. The average male needs to get at least one a year....it's a simple blood test.
Well yes , lots of biopsies, although there are many men on AS who do not and elect other methods, however I choose biopsies and MRI's as well.....I have agree with you and say lots of tests.
As far as anxiety, one of my docs who is a surgeon told me that if I am going to stress , he can do an operation with a 99 percent chance of success.....so anyway one has to have a no stress attitude, and go on enjoying life, or seek active treatment.
"it has the lowest side effects of any treatment and that if conditions change, you have time to take a course of action that can effectively deal with it. For many men, they never have to take a course of treatment at all."
Agree..additionally AS results for localized prostate cancer that has a low gleason and small volume compare favorably with other treatment options over time.......I remember reading a comparison for 15 years forward.
cheers,
Ira
Agree completely with your post. I think that AS is a very viable alternative to treatment for men with low risk prostate cancer and I didn't mean to overstate the monitoring process which is really no more onerous that the follow-up we follow after treatment. I just meant to imply that for AS to work there is a big emphasis on the "active" part of this course of action.0
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