taste buds after radiation

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  • Hondo
    Hondo Member Posts: 6,636 Member

    Taste Buds
    Hi Everyone

    Much like slick52 my radiation treatments were over last Monday. I was being treated around the head and neck as well as my tongue. I had 35 treatments of radiation and 3 chemo (cisplatin) Im relatively young compared to most of the folks Ive seen and talked to only 41. I responded really well to the treatment lost some weight and was able to continue working through the entire process. I can eat much better now than before but its mostly soft-ish stuff, soups, eggs, cereal etc.

    I have many of the same questions?

    Thanks

    Hi Big Mike

    It comes back but takes a lot of time, the body is a remarkable peace of machinery in that it was created to be able to heal its self. One thing you might find is that there is what we call a new normal you. I am 5 years passed my last Radiation and Chemo, food is just now really starting to taste very good, the only problem I still have is with sweet things, I can taste them once some times twice and then that is it, I know something is in my mouth but all the taste of the sweetness is gone.

    Take cake and welcome to CSN my friend
  • dwoythal
    dwoythal Member Posts: 4
    mmalar97 said:

    I need your advice
    Rose EM: You mentioned that there are not too many things that you can eat. Well, I turned 62, and was pleased that I had lived 5 years past total prostate cancer. Three months later, I was diagnosed with tongue and neck cancer. I had canser taken from my tongue(a donor patch from my hip was placed), and I had 1 lymph node removed from my neck. This was Dec 15, 2009. I started 30 double doses of radiation 6 weeks later. It is now early May 2010. There is one spot below the tongue (deep) that still causes great pain when I try to eat. I can eat eggs fried with bacon( I can't chew the bacon, though I love it). There are 2 to 3 other soft things I can handle. The doctors told me that the sore is nerve damage, and may never heal. I have lost over 40 pounds so far. I needed to lose 30 pounds before I was diagnosed, but now, I can't maintain my weight! I am losing 2-3 pounds a week. Do you have any suggestions for food. I have always loved cheese cake! Michael

    foods to keep weight on
    my husband, Tom, finished radiation and chemo/cisplatin, for base of tongue cancer, lymph node involvement, in early March. He had the feeding tube and used it along with trying to take a little by mouth each day and didn't lose too much weight. We were counting calories, and protein constantly to maintain the weight and the protein for healing. He had the feeding tube removed two weeks ago. His throat is still not good, and he can taste a little, but he's very worried about the lack of saliva. He now thinks his throat will not get any better than it is now and that his saliva won't increase either - are these likely to stay the same?

    Now to the foods that worked for us: Jevity via the feeding tube. Myoplex, a high protein drink from the grocery store, was tolerable by mouth. The whole time we made milkshakes, using the Carnation Breakfast packet, 1/2 c. milk, 1 c. of ice cream. He drank four of these a day. I think the Carnation breakfast milkshakes were the best thing we found to keep his nutrition up by mouth.

    Ramen soup was a good soup for him. Cheesy Potato soup mix was also good and high in protein. I bought a little book that gave the protein counts and calorie counts and we kept track every day - because he's a big man, the dietician at the hospital said he needed 220 grams of protein a day, 220 oz. liquid and 3000 calories to keep the weight good. We kept that up most of March and April and into this month.

    Once the feeding tube came out, we bought a grinder and ground up turkey and chicken, added gravy and potatoes and noodles, all of which he could eat. Last night, I sauted tilapia and that was easy for him to eat. I've been buying canned vegetables and fruits and he can eat them.

    The main problem now for Tom is that he had 8 teeth pulled prior to treatment, doctor's orders, and kept his front teeth so he can't chew anything except with the front teeth.

    This is my first post but I've been reading all of your posts since early February. Thank you for helping everyone out.

    I hope someone can let me know if Tom's throat will get any better than it is now, at almost 3 months post-treatment, and if the saliva is ever likely to come back. He gets the 3-month PET scan in a couple of weeks and I'm glad to have read that if it's not 'clear' it isn't really a bad sign. Also, something that has scared us is that the doctor said if it goes to the lungs, there's nothing that can be done. I can't believe this could be true.

    Tom and Deb
  • debbiejeanne
    debbiejeanne Member Posts: 3,102 Member

    suggestions for food.
    I too have been extremely limited in being able to eat food normally. My tongue is still in a lot of pain, most foods still burn my mouth, and I have a great deal of trouble with swallowing due to radiation damage. I have had two dilliations since my radiation ended may of last year. I am still getting most of my nutrition from my peg tube that i have had i n for 14 months. I am trying to gain my 40 lbs back, but it isn't easy when you can't eat much.

    Boiled potatoes? Butter and sour cream. Oatmeal. Avocados. Tiny pastina. Pureed beans with garlic and olive oil on a torilla. Bananas. Shakes. Cooked zucchini squash. Cream cheese. I layer a bit of cream cheese on a 6" flour tortilla, add one slice of ham or turkey, and a bit of shredded carrot and lettuce, and roll up. I can't seem to swallow eggs, but if you can what about an omlette? tofu?

    I also have an emulsifier and I try to make fruit smoothies when I can. Someone on this site once mentioned a cookbook for dysphagia. I might try it when my mouth can tolerate more foods someday, I hope. I cannot eat bread or cookies aor cake products, or meats at all. I have found about 5 or six things I can sort of eat. I do better eating alone, so I can concitrate. I still choke and gag a lot.

    I hope that you have more healing. Keep trying, I know it's tough. I bought tofu, sliced cheese, and truffle oil to try today. I walk thru the store thinking...hmm..I wonder if I can swallow that??? I try one new thing every day or so. I still cannot taste much either. It is frustrating. I had my diet after my treatment all planned out. Hi in fruit and veg, very low sugar and dairy, yada yada. I cannot swallow the veg, the fruit burns my mouth. All I can taste are sweet things, and dairy is the only thing that does not burn my mouth, but actually feels good. I at least went from 88lbs to about 96 with the overnight pump they gave me. I cannot get anywhere what I need by mouth alone.

    My father made a huge seafood paella today, and I had to suffer through the smell of popcorn at the movie theatre today, we went to see Iron Man II. Some days are tougher than others. I really wanted paella and popcorn. :( I miss food.

    Looking at books I might try:

    http://www.amazon.com/Dysphagia-Cookbook-Elayne-Achilles/dp/1581823487

    http://www.sourcebooks.com/products/cumberland/cumberland/9781581823486-dysphagia-cookbook.html

    food
    Sweet, I'm sorry that your mouth is still sore and that you can't eat much. I understand b/c there is still so much that I can't eat due to taste buds being off whack. I would love to eat something chocolate but it tastes really bad. My last trmnt was last Oct (22) and to date there is very little that taste right. Chicken and ribs are what I can eat and actually enjoy, or at least I used to. After eating them and eating them, they're becoming kinda gross but I won't complain b/c at least I can eat something. I pray things will get better for you and all who are suffering with eating. Take care and try to stay positive.
    God Bless,
    Deb
  • debbiejeanne
    debbiejeanne Member Posts: 3,102 Member
    dwoythal said:

    foods to keep weight on
    my husband, Tom, finished radiation and chemo/cisplatin, for base of tongue cancer, lymph node involvement, in early March. He had the feeding tube and used it along with trying to take a little by mouth each day and didn't lose too much weight. We were counting calories, and protein constantly to maintain the weight and the protein for healing. He had the feeding tube removed two weeks ago. His throat is still not good, and he can taste a little, but he's very worried about the lack of saliva. He now thinks his throat will not get any better than it is now and that his saliva won't increase either - are these likely to stay the same?

    Now to the foods that worked for us: Jevity via the feeding tube. Myoplex, a high protein drink from the grocery store, was tolerable by mouth. The whole time we made milkshakes, using the Carnation Breakfast packet, 1/2 c. milk, 1 c. of ice cream. He drank four of these a day. I think the Carnation breakfast milkshakes were the best thing we found to keep his nutrition up by mouth.

    Ramen soup was a good soup for him. Cheesy Potato soup mix was also good and high in protein. I bought a little book that gave the protein counts and calorie counts and we kept track every day - because he's a big man, the dietician at the hospital said he needed 220 grams of protein a day, 220 oz. liquid and 3000 calories to keep the weight good. We kept that up most of March and April and into this month.

    Once the feeding tube came out, we bought a grinder and ground up turkey and chicken, added gravy and potatoes and noodles, all of which he could eat. Last night, I sauted tilapia and that was easy for him to eat. I've been buying canned vegetables and fruits and he can eat them.

    The main problem now for Tom is that he had 8 teeth pulled prior to treatment, doctor's orders, and kept his front teeth so he can't chew anything except with the front teeth.

    This is my first post but I've been reading all of your posts since early February. Thank you for helping everyone out.

    I hope someone can let me know if Tom's throat will get any better than it is now, at almost 3 months post-treatment, and if the saliva is ever likely to come back. He gets the 3-month PET scan in a couple of weeks and I'm glad to have read that if it's not 'clear' it isn't really a bad sign. Also, something that has scared us is that the doctor said if it goes to the lungs, there's nothing that can be done. I can't believe this could be true.

    Tom and Deb

    saliva
    Tom and Deb, my last rad trmnt was 10/22/09. My mouth was so dry it would acutally make me choke. It took about 5 months for my mouth to be moist enough for me to stop needing water all thru the night. It does get better but it takes a while. About the pet scan, my 3 month showed activity and I had another biopsy only to find out the scan was a false positive. It scared the living he... out of me. So, yes, keep that in mind about the scan. I was told it shows positive sometimes due to leftover radiation and scar tissue.
    Good luck and I will keep you both in my prayers.
    God Bless,
    Deb
  • sweetblood22
    sweetblood22 Member Posts: 3,228

    food
    Sweet, I'm sorry that your mouth is still sore and that you can't eat much. I understand b/c there is still so much that I can't eat due to taste buds being off whack. I would love to eat something chocolate but it tastes really bad. My last trmnt was last Oct (22) and to date there is very little that taste right. Chicken and ribs are what I can eat and actually enjoy, or at least I used to. After eating them and eating them, they're becoming kinda gross but I won't complain b/c at least I can eat something. I pray things will get better for you and all who are suffering with eating. Take care and try to stay positive.
    God Bless,
    Deb

    chicken and ribs........................doh!
    Oh man, if I had saliva right now I'd be drooling! Sounds soo good. I have even tried to puree the chicken and it wouldn't go down. I told told my one friend on sunday that I was dying so bad for fried chicken. Like Popeye's fried chicken. I think that going into radiation down one saliva gland did not help, since they fried the other one i had left. Plus I had problems with swallowing before cancer and had my esophogus dialated, (way further down than the stricture from rads damage) back in 2006. Oh well, I will keep trying.
  • JUDYV5
    JUDYV5 Member Posts: 392

    Taste Buds
    Hi Everyone

    Much like slick52 my radiation treatments were over last Monday. I was being treated around the head and neck as well as my tongue. I had 35 treatments of radiation and 3 chemo (cisplatin) Im relatively young compared to most of the folks Ive seen and talked to only 41. I responded really well to the treatment lost some weight and was able to continue working through the entire process. I can eat much better now than before but its mostly soft-ish stuff, soups, eggs, cereal etc.

    I have many of the same questions?

    Thanks

    BigMike_LV
    It is exciting that I found someone that I can relate to. I'm a little older then you, 46,
    but do feel like a youngster at radiation. They followed the same treatment for my throat cancer. I finish my 35th radiation treatment on Tuesday. I will also have the last dose of cisplatin on that day. My blood count was to low last Tuesday. They put in a feeding tube, but I really didn't start using it for all my nutrition until the salavia started (2weeks)I can still swallow. Because our treatments are so similar I look forward to hearing about your progress.
  • doitforoj
    doitforoj Member Posts: 64
    Finished Treatment in December
    Hey slick, I finished in Dec. Salt was first back. I could eat anything and all I could taste was the salt. So I ate eggs at first. About 3 weeks after treatment. Then some oatmeal. It is been 5 months now and nothing taste exactly right but not many things taste real ban anymore. It gets better. Good luck to you.

    Kurt
  • RONNYJ
    RONNYJ Member Posts: 1
    RADIATION THERAPY. TASTING

    HI I AM RONNY J, i GOT ON HERE TO FIND SOME INTELLIGENT QUESTIONS THAT NEED SOME INTELLGENT ANSWERS. PERFECT TIMING ON THE LAST TREATMENT I HAD 40 TREATMENNTS AND ALREADY HAVING A SMALL LESION ON MY LEFT SALVARY GLAND AND LYPHNOE THREAMENT TOO.   I'LL COSIDER TUESDAY THE FIRST DAY OF RECOVERYBAND ALL SEEMS TO BE IN REMISSION BUT STILL HAVE A TUMOR ON MY SCALP. I AM A HEART PATIENT SO ALL SURGERIES WERE ADVOIDED AND GLAD. I LOST MY SENSE OF SWEET AND BASIC BUT MY COFFEE FINALLY STARTED TO TASTE A BIT MORE NUTTY WITH HAZELNUT CREAMER. ADDED TWO TABLESPOONS OF SUGAR, COULD NOT TASTE IS  BE SURE TO BRSH YOUR TONGE TILL YOU GAG IF YOU MOUTH IS DRY SIP WATER AND A LOT OF IT OVER A GALLON CHILLI IS GREAT IF YOU LIKE SPICEY.I DID LOOSE 45 POUNDS.  EAT EVER THREE TO FOUR HOURS AND KEEP PLENTY OF WATER READY ALL TIMES. I FEEL LIKE HUMPTY DUMPTY RE LEARNING ALL GOOD HEALTHY FOOD CHOICES AND BE SURE TO LLOVE YOURSELF. i HOPE YOU HAVE A COMPANION ACTING COMPASSIONATELY TOWARDS YOUR NEEDS. GOD BLESS YOU BLESS

  • CivilMatt
    CivilMatt Member Posts: 4,722 Member
    edited March 2017 #50
    RONNYJ said:

    RADIATION THERAPY. TASTING

    HI I AM RONNY J, i GOT ON HERE TO FIND SOME INTELLIGENT QUESTIONS THAT NEED SOME INTELLGENT ANSWERS. PERFECT TIMING ON THE LAST TREATMENT I HAD 40 TREATMENNTS AND ALREADY HAVING A SMALL LESION ON MY LEFT SALVARY GLAND AND LYPHNOE THREAMENT TOO.   I'LL COSIDER TUESDAY THE FIRST DAY OF RECOVERYBAND ALL SEEMS TO BE IN REMISSION BUT STILL HAVE A TUMOR ON MY SCALP. I AM A HEART PATIENT SO ALL SURGERIES WERE ADVOIDED AND GLAD. I LOST MY SENSE OF SWEET AND BASIC BUT MY COFFEE FINALLY STARTED TO TASTE A BIT MORE NUTTY WITH HAZELNUT CREAMER. ADDED TWO TABLESPOONS OF SUGAR, COULD NOT TASTE IS  BE SURE TO BRSH YOUR TONGE TILL YOU GAG IF YOU MOUTH IS DRY SIP WATER AND A LOT OF IT OVER A GALLON CHILLI IS GREAT IF YOU LIKE SPICEY.I DID LOOSE 45 POUNDS.  EAT EVER THREE TO FOUR HOURS AND KEEP PLENTY OF WATER READY ALL TIMES. I FEEL LIKE HUMPTY DUMPTY RE LEARNING ALL GOOD HEALTHY FOOD CHOICES AND BE SURE TO LLOVE YOURSELF. i HOPE YOU HAVE A COMPANION ACTING COMPASSIONATELY TOWARDS YOUR NEEDS. GOD BLESS YOU BLESS

    welcome

    Ronny,

    Welcome to the H&N forum, sounds like you are just in time for dessert.  What type of H&N cancer did you have?  Is your lesion from treatment side effects?  You sound like all of us in the taste area, we are all different, but there are those hits and misses.

    If you start a new thread you may generate more interest, these older threads generally won’t give you the attention you deserve.

    Matt

  • AnotherSurvivor
    AnotherSurvivor Member Posts: 383 Member
    edited March 2017 #51
    Wow, what a great old thread.

    Wow, what a great old thread.  I would add that Trident Layers gum doesn't have the icky xylitol taste, but doesn't seem to hold together long.   Amazon seems like the best source.  I have had the funny experience of having recovered fruit and vegetable taste, and no meat or cheese, to now tasting meat and cheese but losing fruit and vegetable.  I assume that the components having worked once, they will eventually work again.  I had horrid dry mouth, including the drink, sleep, pee cycle, and then yesterday suddenly woke up not dry.  During the day it could go either way, tho chewing gum constantly seems to be helping recovery, and not just providing temporary relief.  I am days shy of 12 weeks post.

  • BlacksuitDC
    BlacksuitDC Member Posts: 18
    Five years out

    5 years out...63 radiation treatments....taste buds haven't come back.  I can taste but it is discusting for the most part. Think of eating cheap canned dog food.  You thin it and just learn to somehow gag it down. Food has no joy. 

  • Gordon C
    Gordon C Member Posts: 1

    Taste buds
    Hi and welcome to the discussion boards slick52. Did you have radiation to your head, neck, face ect? What type of cancer did you have? How much chemo? I am sure someone will answer if we know what you have been through. In my case I had 25 radiation treatments to the right side of my face. I lost half my taste buds, saliva glands and have scar tissue in my right sinus. This was 6 years ago and nothing is going to return. But the good news is that I am still alive. I just eat spicy food and pizza with peppers so I can taste it. Anyway if we have a bit more information I am sure someone can help a little better. Slickwilly

    taste buds

    I have had 15 radiation treatments one chemo treatment I have 20 more radiation treatments to go and 2 chemo treatments to go i cannot taste anything it is very hard to eat when i cannot taste it every time i try i almost trow it up i cant swollow it any help on this Thanks

  • CivilMatt
    CivilMatt Member Posts: 4,722 Member
    Gordon C said:

    taste buds

    I have had 15 radiation treatments one chemo treatment I have 20 more radiation treatments to go and 2 chemo treatments to go i cannot taste anything it is very hard to eat when i cannot taste it every time i try i almost trow it up i cant swollow it any help on this Thanks

    took me 7 months, but I am taste, food and eating happy.

    Gordon C,

    Welcome to the H&N forum, sorry that you are hear, but I can taste your problem.

    Most of the members lose their ability to eat and enjoy eating to a degree.  Most manage with their determination to see it through, whether they are eating, drinking or on a PEG.  If you can’t eat or eating makes you sick, try some energy drinks (there are lots of liquid choices).  Eating may not be pleasant for a while so, dig in and figure out what works for you.

    To generate more replies to your  question you might try starting a new thread.

    Matt

  • ruthy2s
    ruthy2s Member Posts: 7
    taste after radiation5 rad treatments

    I am having trouble picking up some of the weight I lost after SCC Tonsil cancer- 35 rad treatments and chemo each week.

    Mostly i think this is because the carbs which usually make me fat- Baileys Irish cream, chocolat cake, pasta, taste terrible. My sweet taste is entirely gone and dry food like cake and bread turn to cardboard, too dry to eat.  I put vinegar on everything, sour cream too and keep a glass of water handy- a bite of food, a sip of water.  I am 3 1/2 months from end of treatment. GOOD PART- no pain, and I am alive! I may have to start drinking a supplement but oh, the texture and smell make me gag! Suggestions?

  • wbcgaruss
    wbcgaruss Member Posts: 2,260 Member
    edited October 2018 #56
    Right Now Just Eat

    We all go through this period. Food has no taste or some not a very good taste but mostly no taste. It can be difficult but make up your mind that you are going to eat so much each day and you are really just forcing it through into your body to get a certain amount of calories to be stable or gain weight. Till your flavor starts coming back you are eating because your body needs it-no enjoyment out of it. Believe me, I am thankful I can eat again and have enough of my sense of taste back to enjoy a meal. So glad, and be thankful you can eat and are not dependent on a feeding tube.

    God Bless-Good Luck-Russ

  • Nancy Oien
    Nancy Oien Member Posts: 1
    edited October 2018 #57
    mmalar97 said:

    I need your advice
    Rose EM: You mentioned that there are not too many things that you can eat. Well, I turned 62, and was pleased that I had lived 5 years past total prostate cancer. Three months later, I was diagnosed with tongue and neck cancer. I had canser taken from my tongue(a donor patch from my hip was placed), and I had 1 lymph node removed from my neck. This was Dec 15, 2009. I started 30 double doses of radiation 6 weeks later. It is now early May 2010. There is one spot below the tongue (deep) that still causes great pain when I try to eat. I can eat eggs fried with bacon( I can't chew the bacon, though I love it). There are 2 to 3 other soft things I can handle. The doctors told me that the sore is nerve damage, and may never heal. I have lost over 40 pounds so far. I needed to lose 30 pounds before I was diagnosed, but now, I can't maintain my weight! I am losing 2-3 pounds a week. Do you have any suggestions for food. I have always loved cheese cake! Michael

    Help with food

    I had half of my tongue removed in 2010, but my cancer returned in 2014 and I had chemo and full dose radiation on the right side of my tongue.  My taste buds have been destroyed and my food tastes terrible. However, life goes on and we find ways to survive. I drink 3 smoothies each day. I put in 3/4 cup of mixed berries (raspberries, blue berries and black berries) that I get from Costco, 3/4 cup of plain yogurt, 1/2 cup of SoBe water (0 cal Black and Blue Berry flavor), 2 teaspoons raw sugar, 1 scoop of MRM egg white protein powder, and 1 tablespoon of unrefined coconut oil, melted. I put all of this in my Magic Bullet and  mix it up. I hold my breath and drink it down as fast as I can. Between swallows I drink cold water. I have been doing this for over 4 years now. It has worked quite well for me. I miss my enjoyment from food, but I am alive and I love my family. I also drink one "Boost Plus" everyday. I use the MRM Protein Powder because it is the best protein on the market. I get vanilla. It is very important to get 20 milligrams of protein with each meal. Fats and sugar are the only 2 food items that will help you gain weight. You may need to dring more than one Boost a day. You could also add more coconut oil to the smoothie. I also use the high fat yogurt. I too had a nerve in my tongue that was trying to regenerate. My doctor took the nerve out of my tongue, ptoblem solved. Good luck to you. Let me know if my suggestions help. Remember, more fat or Boost if your weight is falling.

  • Drivingdaisy
    Drivingdaisy Member Posts: 263

    Help with food

    I had half of my tongue removed in 2010, but my cancer returned in 2014 and I had chemo and full dose radiation on the right side of my tongue.  My taste buds have been destroyed and my food tastes terrible. However, life goes on and we find ways to survive. I drink 3 smoothies each day. I put in 3/4 cup of mixed berries (raspberries, blue berries and black berries) that I get from Costco, 3/4 cup of plain yogurt, 1/2 cup of SoBe water (0 cal Black and Blue Berry flavor), 2 teaspoons raw sugar, 1 scoop of MRM egg white protein powder, and 1 tablespoon of unrefined coconut oil, melted. I put all of this in my Magic Bullet and  mix it up. I hold my breath and drink it down as fast as I can. Between swallows I drink cold water. I have been doing this for over 4 years now. It has worked quite well for me. I miss my enjoyment from food, but I am alive and I love my family. I also drink one "Boost Plus" everyday. I use the MRM Protein Powder because it is the best protein on the market. I get vanilla. It is very important to get 20 milligrams of protein with each meal. Fats and sugar are the only 2 food items that will help you gain weight. You may need to dring more than one Boost a day. You could also add more coconut oil to the smoothie. I also use the high fat yogurt. I too had a nerve in my tongue that was trying to regenerate. My doctor took the nerve out of my tongue, ptoblem solved. Good luck to you. Let me know if my suggestions help. Remember, more fat or Boost if your weight is falling.

    Sugar

    Cancer feeds on sugar.  Only use stevia & check all foods for sugar count & fructose.  Boost is pure crap.  Better premade shakes on the market, organic, non gmo, non dairy, no sugar ( always check labels).  One is called Orgain ( excellent taste) also pea based shakes, more chalky. 

  • Drivingdaisy
    Drivingdaisy Member Posts: 263
    Skiffin16 said:

    Taste Bud Recovery & Dry Mouth
    Thanks Hondo,

    I'll definitely give the Stoppers a try.....

    LOL, I actually just changed that original photo to one of me on my Hewes Redfisher with a limit of Pompano that a friend and I caught in Tampa Bay. I live fairly close and fish there often. The other was on another friend's Maverick Master Angler. We were fishing near the Skyway Bridge for grouper that day at the mouth of Tampa Bay.

    Any day that I can get out fishing is a great day....but also right now any and every day that I'm a survivor is an awesome day.

    John

    John......Tampa?

    Hi John, May have posted to you back in 2016 when My journey started.  I live down in Sarasota, My son is up in Clearwater.  Where did you get your treatment done?  Thank you, how are you doing now? Lisa

  • wild willy
    wild willy Member Posts: 63 Member
    taste

    im eight years out and still not able to taste. let me back up, i can taste jelly beans but nothing else.not even vinigar.