Poison or Medicine?

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Comments

  • MAJW
    MAJW Member Posts: 2,510 Member
    pgrace35 said:

    I completely understand
    your feeling on chemo. I went through the same thing. I have always taken the homeopathic route to all my aliments, but I went rounds on this one. Decided to do the chemo and put into my mind over and over again, though it is a poison, I wasn't going to look at it that way, it was killing off my cancer cells. I always have eaten really well, exercised reg,etc... I just stepped it up, educating myself on building my immune system more, eating things that are proven to help with breast cancer, supplements and a postive mind. The mind is a very powerful tool, put it in you mind that the chemo is good not bad regardless how you feel. Just be smart when you are at your weakest point of each treatment, don't go out in public as much, bring hand sanitizer every where you go, take immune building supplements to boost your immune system and when feeling down talk, this is a wonderful site and has helped me out immensely. Remember cancer is not who you are, it's just what you have.Good luck!

    ONE MORE THING..........
    You are not whining.......you just expressed your feelings......all of us who have gone through this know exactly how you feel.........been there done that! One thing I would like to add.......I was told not to even take a vitamin during chemo.....pgrace offered great advice on hand sanitizers, etc but taking anything without the consent of your oncologist is a no no......ALWAYS check with your oncologist before taking ANYTHING......
    Peace be with you......
  • Ms.Lefty
    Ms.Lefty Member Posts: 3
    MAJW said:

    ONE MORE THING..........
    You are not whining.......you just expressed your feelings......all of us who have gone through this know exactly how you feel.........been there done that! One thing I would like to add.......I was told not to even take a vitamin during chemo.....pgrace offered great advice on hand sanitizers, etc but taking anything without the consent of your oncologist is a no no......ALWAYS check with your oncologist before taking ANYTHING......
    Peace be with you......

    It's poison AND medicine
    Ayse, I can understand how you feel - the decision to have chemo was more stressful for me than any pain I had from my biopsy and lumpectomy. But I was very lucky - I had very few side effects from Chemo. Tired, yes, but the sickest I ever got was when I caught a virus during my treatment. I had a port put in, and even that didn't bother me much. So you might not do so badly after all. The Oncotype DX test estimated that chemo would reduce my chance of the cancer recurring from 15% to 7%. I was in good health, and had good insurance, so DH and I figured why not?

    So I got poisoned. And then nuked.

    But I'm doing pretty well now - with the exception of a 20-lb weight gain.
  • Mama G
    Mama G Member Posts: 762
    Ms.Lefty said:

    It's poison AND medicine
    Ayse, I can understand how you feel - the decision to have chemo was more stressful for me than any pain I had from my biopsy and lumpectomy. But I was very lucky - I had very few side effects from Chemo. Tired, yes, but the sickest I ever got was when I caught a virus during my treatment. I had a port put in, and even that didn't bother me much. So you might not do so badly after all. The Oncotype DX test estimated that chemo would reduce my chance of the cancer recurring from 15% to 7%. I was in good health, and had good insurance, so DH and I figured why not?

    So I got poisoned. And then nuked.

    But I'm doing pretty well now - with the exception of a 20-lb weight gain.

    I felt just like you did
    and I cried and whined for 3 weeks straight. Finally my daughter knocked some sense into me and I got on with my battle. The chemo was a poison chemical in my mind (still is) but it's essential. How do I know? My sister had her breast cancer come back while I was fighting mine and the chemo beat the H.E. double hockey sticks out of her cancer! I got to witness that her cancer cells disappeared! Also my oncologist is a 17 year survivor and she used the same chemotherapy that I'm on.
    All we can do is pray that it works for us and that it doesn't do much collateral damage along the way. I've done the 4 a/c chemos and 9 of the taxol and at the age of 59 I'm doing GREAT! No real side effects. I'm so blessed. I hope and pray you have the same results. POSITIVE attitude! Go in there fighting, woman!!! but with a smile.
  • aysemari
    aysemari Member Posts: 1,596 Member
    Mama G said:

    I felt just like you did
    and I cried and whined for 3 weeks straight. Finally my daughter knocked some sense into me and I got on with my battle. The chemo was a poison chemical in my mind (still is) but it's essential. How do I know? My sister had her breast cancer come back while I was fighting mine and the chemo beat the H.E. double hockey sticks out of her cancer! I got to witness that her cancer cells disappeared! Also my oncologist is a 17 year survivor and she used the same chemotherapy that I'm on.
    All we can do is pray that it works for us and that it doesn't do much collateral damage along the way. I've done the 4 a/c chemos and 9 of the taxol and at the age of 59 I'm doing GREAT! No real side effects. I'm so blessed. I hope and pray you have the same results. POSITIVE attitude! Go in there fighting, woman!!! but with a smile.

    You really are like sisters!!!
    Where would I be without you? I learned so much from this site and it prepared me in
    so many ways but I guess I still have to go through the emotions and nothing can prepare
    me for that.

    Good news ladies, I finally found the source of normalcy in my life. My cats!! They treat
    me exactly the same. Wake me up early in the morning in the wee ungodly hours, chase
    me all day around demanding treats and don't budge to make room for me in my own
    bed, gotta love the brats.

    I even found some beauty in all of this mess. My friends and their clumsy and endearing
    attempts to be there for me. Tonight I got a pizza, compliments of my friend who lives
    in another state... you see she got it in her head, that I will be a skeleton, so it's time
    to plump me up! Tell me that's not funny?? She's a chef, I should add that too. My other
    friend, highly intellectual is on a mad book hunt, I get 3 days a call, to make sure she's
    picking something I would be interested in but it has to be good literature. So they
    all help me in their own way.

    How many people really can say who their true friends are, I CAN!!

    So I will continue to post and maybe sometimes (whine)!!!

    Ayse
  • aysemari
    aysemari Member Posts: 1,596 Member
    Eil4186 said:

    Ayse, my hubby was against
    Ayse, my hubby was against chemo for the same reasons that you are. It is true, chemo is controlled poisening. But it is safe, and very effective for breast cancer. I too had adriamycin and was shocked when they told me about how it would burn tissue if it leaked, and how the nurses covered themselves from head to toe before handling it. But it is a necessary evil. I didn't like the idea of it, but I liked the idea of having a recurrence or mets way less.

    You have to weigh the pros and cons. My Aunt died of breast cancer and suffered horribly before she died. She was such a good person. I don't have the courage she had. I took the chemo in hopes that it could reduce the chance of my having to go through what she did.

    You have one life and we are lucky to live in a time where effective treatment is available for breast cancer. Think about it very carefully before making a choice. Eil

    Necessary evil
    I once used this exact term explaining chemo! Great mind think alike,
    Thanks for the reminder.

    Ayse
  • aysemari
    aysemari Member Posts: 1,596 Member
    SunnieC said:

    I truly feel the same way you do and
    what I did was read a lot of books but 1 book in particular by suzanne somers called KNOCKOUT really made me look at the options out there - she is not an advocate of chemo but knows there are benefits to it - I ultimately decided that chemo (I am 1/3 of the way thru) then surgery (hopefully in early june) is the route for me - I decided that I am willing to take the chemo risks rather than spend the rest of my life (whatever it will be) taking holistic cures in the form of 60-80 pills a day!

    I believe that we all need to get angry and act like a 3 year old sometimes - it is a huge relief to the emotions built up inside of us - everyone else will forgive you your tantrums so you too should forgive yourself your tantrums - they serve a purpose - in moderation like everything else :)

    And please don't ever feel like you are whining - I felt that way too and mentioned it to a co-worker who said to me "I'd rather you be here whining every now and then, than to not have you here" - she is an amazing friend that I didn't even know I had... please consider yourself my friend too...

    I wish you the best of luck on your journey and remember we are all here rooting for you - Sunnie

    Hah!
    Carde blanche - let the kicking and screaming begin! ;)

    Thank you my friend.

    Ayse
  • aysemari
    aysemari Member Posts: 1,596 Member
    pgrace35 said:

    I completely understand
    your feeling on chemo. I went through the same thing. I have always taken the homeopathic route to all my aliments, but I went rounds on this one. Decided to do the chemo and put into my mind over and over again, though it is a poison, I wasn't going to look at it that way, it was killing off my cancer cells. I always have eaten really well, exercised reg,etc... I just stepped it up, educating myself on building my immune system more, eating things that are proven to help with breast cancer, supplements and a postive mind. The mind is a very powerful tool, put it in you mind that the chemo is good not bad regardless how you feel. Just be smart when you are at your weakest point of each treatment, don't go out in public as much, bring hand sanitizer every where you go, take immune building supplements to boost your immune system and when feeling down talk, this is a wonderful site and has helped me out immensely. Remember cancer is not who you are, it's just what you have.Good luck!

    Understanding - PRICELESS
    Thank you both for the good tips and making me feel good about expressing
    my fears and emotions.

    When I am at my weakest point the only crowd I want around me, are the
    understanding and compassionate women on this site.

    Ayse
  • mariam_11_09
    mariam_11_09 Member Posts: 691
    chemo or not to chemo


    I was told yesterday what my chemo plan would be and told I would have to have a port put in. To be honest I couldn't sleep last night. I am also stage 3A, they found some lone cancer cells in blood and lymphatic fluid. I want to see my daughter grow up.

    I am very nervous about chemo. However I do also believe if one really takes care during chemo, rest, good diet, plenty of water, whatever suppliments are permissible, keep away from people with have something contagious etc one can support one's body and minimise the side affects. I know I am going to need to build myself up into having a port installed.

    I think a question to ask as well is "Is there anyone out there that refused chemo and is still alive today?'
  • aysemari
    aysemari Member Posts: 1,596 Member

    chemo or not to chemo


    I was told yesterday what my chemo plan would be and told I would have to have a port put in. To be honest I couldn't sleep last night. I am also stage 3A, they found some lone cancer cells in blood and lymphatic fluid. I want to see my daughter grow up.

    I am very nervous about chemo. However I do also believe if one really takes care during chemo, rest, good diet, plenty of water, whatever suppliments are permissible, keep away from people with have something contagious etc one can support one's body and minimise the side affects. I know I am going to need to build myself up into having a port installed.

    I think a question to ask as well is "Is there anyone out there that refused chemo and is still alive today?'

    I can almost smell your fear
    Hi, I really understand what you are going through. And now that I think about it, you are
    right it really started with the port. I started getting really upset and emotional. The port
    surgery itself was not all that bad, afterward it's weird, you feel it inside you and I still
    take pain killers. But I think after a while, the skin will stretch and make room for this
    foreign object in my body and then hopefully it will be fine.

    I am sorry that you are in the same scary place I was. After doing a lot of mind wrecking
    research.... I found myself very mad, I did not find another option to chemo. But I did
    make some people I know come out of the closet and tell me they had cancer and had
    chemo and the whole nine yards and have been cancer free since. That's all I needed.
    It's heartbreaking that this is all science can do for us right now but goes to tell you,
    just what you are battling. It's also not a coincidence in my eyes that the survival rate
    in other countries who don't offer chemo or radiation is much lower.

    Please don't misunderstand, I am not trying to influence you in any way, I am just
    giving you my end results, in the hope that I can help lessen your fears.

    But like you, I will gear up, take very well care of my body and after chemo, do EVERYTHING
    in the book to boost my immune system so it can keep fighting my battle.

    I hope this helped some what...

    Sending lots of hugs
    Ayse
  • KathiM
    KathiM Member Posts: 8,028 Member
    I was dx with stage III rectal cancer...given 6 months to live...started a combo of chemo and rads that attacked the tumor so well that it completely disappeared...it was the size of a golf ball...

    Chemo for my second cancer (breast, stage II), 6 months later, was a bit harder to accept...why didn't the first set get this cancer, too....

    After 4 second opinions, I sat with the lead oncologist from the breast center at UCLA. She gave it to me straight. She said that right now, with today's medicine, this was the best course for me. Since this was different than the other chemo, it was specifically designed for breast cancer, and was very efficient. Her final statement convinced me "Why, after fighting so hard for your life the first time, would you not do everything you can this time?"

    I did take the treatment, but also when it got too tough, conferred with my oncologist and we skipped one treatment...I did what felt right for me.

    This is a VERY personal decision, but I fell that I made the right choices for me...and I'm still No Evidence of Disease, 5 years later.

    Hugs, Kathi
  • laurissa
    laurissa Member Posts: 773
    Hi, Ayse
    I just finished my 6th round of chemo. It does drain you temporarily. It took almost 4 months to do it, but after the 2nd treatment, my 2 tumors were gone, 3 cm. size. One in right breast and one under arm. Losing hair and taste were the worst part of it for me. I took a week off work each month and bounced right back in time for the next treatment. Like a rollercoaster ride. I'll have a petscan on the 4th to see whats happening. I wish you well.
  • pgrace35
    pgrace35 Member Posts: 122
    aysemari said:

    You really are like sisters!!!
    Where would I be without you? I learned so much from this site and it prepared me in
    so many ways but I guess I still have to go through the emotions and nothing can prepare
    me for that.

    Good news ladies, I finally found the source of normalcy in my life. My cats!! They treat
    me exactly the same. Wake me up early in the morning in the wee ungodly hours, chase
    me all day around demanding treats and don't budge to make room for me in my own
    bed, gotta love the brats.

    I even found some beauty in all of this mess. My friends and their clumsy and endearing
    attempts to be there for me. Tonight I got a pizza, compliments of my friend who lives
    in another state... you see she got it in her head, that I will be a skeleton, so it's time
    to plump me up! Tell me that's not funny?? She's a chef, I should add that too. My other
    friend, highly intellectual is on a mad book hunt, I get 3 days a call, to make sure she's
    picking something I would be interested in but it has to be good literature. So they
    all help me in their own way.

    How many people really can say who their true friends are, I CAN!!

    So I will continue to post and maybe sometimes (whine)!!!

    Ayse

    Absolutely
    Continue to keep us updated on how your doing, and even whine....we have that right too!!! And yes, animals are wonderful creatures aren't they. I work a vet clinic running the boarding and handle impounds, I'm around these wonderful creatures all day. Plus I have 1 cat, 1 dog and 5 ferrets!! They are a huge positive aspect in my life, they live so in the moment, don't judge and love you reqardless how you feel and what you look like...it's awesome. Hang in there, have a great day!
  • mimivac
    mimivac Member Posts: 2,143
    Hi Ayse
    By the way, Ayse is my mom's middle name. :)

    I understand your trepidation. Who wouldn't be scared and sketptical about a treatment that lowers your white blood count and causes your hair to fall out? You have a right to question your treatment, its risks and benefits. One of the hardest things to come to terms with is the fact that the specific risks and benefits for you are not 100% known at the beginning. There can be serious side effects from chemotherapy, to be sure. However, the really serious ones are not common at all. However I cannot tell you 100% that you will or will not get them. We can only make the best decisions with the information we have. Here's how I reasoned my treatment: I had aggressive cancer that wouldn't respond to hormonal treatments or Herceptin. It was early stage and my best bet for preventing recurrence was to hit it hard from the beginning. Chemo was the only systemic drug in my arsenal. The management of side effects is much more advanced now than it ever was. With those facts, I chose chemo. I had side effects, but none that have lasted. My immune system was weak during my treatment and for a few months afterwards, but my counts now are normal and even high. I am a perfectly fit 35 year-old woman and I even have a full head of hair again.

    I know the decisions can be difficult. There are many questions to ask and doubts abound. The major factors to look at are: 1) stage of cancer, which includes lymph node involvement and size of tumor; 2) grade of cancer; 3) hormone receptor status; 4) age; 5) fitness level, including heart function level; 6) Oncotype score if hormone positive; and 7) BRCA 1 & 2 status. Those are the ones I can think of now. Good luck with your decision.

    Mimi
  • chenheart
    chenheart Member Posts: 5,159
    aysemari said:

    Thanks for your patience with me
    I almost feel embarrassed for having posted this. While there's truth to this post, I also feel
    like I acted a little like 3 year old who doesn't want to do something. As you so graciously pointed
    out to me, while it is not the perfect method to battle cancer, it is still a proven method. And
    I should be grateful really. I think this week, with all the interruptions I had to my life due to
    cancer and then the surgery that kept me home while everyone else took off to the beach...
    which I have missed so much that I have actually dreams of it and I can smell it.
    I just broke down and I imagined, my whole year will be like this. Then the research I did, lead
    me to get mad and feel helpless..
    Thank you all for pointing me in the right direction again, without telling me how uncalled
    my behavior was. I really want to learn to live with this aspect of my life and not erupt uncontrollably
    like a volcano, when fear comes knocking. There are some great role models on this site and
    I will watch (read) and learn.

    I will think twice before I post from now on, I want to post things that inspire and are thought provoking,
    not whining.

    Thanks again
    Ayse

    Oh No! No! No! This wasn't
    Oh No! No! No! This wasn't about patience, or whining, or the need AT ALL to think twice before posting! It isn't as if you were wondering if we think so-and-so should have red hair vs. blonde, or if stillettos would be too sexy to wear on a first date to the ballpark, or if we think sushi is really stupid when you think steak is obviously superior. Ya know...non essential, foolishness which you have your mind set on anyway! LOL

    Chemo, on the other hand is scary as hell! And of course it's poison! It is not quite the same, but honey has botulism toxin in it, so shouldn't be given to children under the age of 1, poppyseeds would make you test positive for opiates, apples seeds have ( I forget) something like arsenic in them. The point is, chemo's poison, while definately affecting our healhy cells, is truly KILLING ( poisoning!) the cancer cells! Which is so what we want, obviously!

    These boards are our safe place to land~for our fears, concerns, triumphs, recipes, vacations,and jokes. We need to know we can come in here at any time and feel enveloped by Kindred Spirits. At 2AM we might feel alone and afraid, or simply can't sleep...we need to be able to sit and read whether we post or not.

    You are a member of our family now~ and your feelings regarding chemo were valid. It is a major decision, to be sure. I hope the decision yu make is right for you , and not only brings you peace of mind, but health and a long, long Life After Cancer!

    Hugs,
    Chen♥
  • aysemari
    aysemari Member Posts: 1,596 Member
    mimivac said:

    Hi Ayse
    By the way, Ayse is my mom's middle name. :)

    I understand your trepidation. Who wouldn't be scared and sketptical about a treatment that lowers your white blood count and causes your hair to fall out? You have a right to question your treatment, its risks and benefits. One of the hardest things to come to terms with is the fact that the specific risks and benefits for you are not 100% known at the beginning. There can be serious side effects from chemotherapy, to be sure. However, the really serious ones are not common at all. However I cannot tell you 100% that you will or will not get them. We can only make the best decisions with the information we have. Here's how I reasoned my treatment: I had aggressive cancer that wouldn't respond to hormonal treatments or Herceptin. It was early stage and my best bet for preventing recurrence was to hit it hard from the beginning. Chemo was the only systemic drug in my arsenal. The management of side effects is much more advanced now than it ever was. With those facts, I chose chemo. I had side effects, but none that have lasted. My immune system was weak during my treatment and for a few months afterwards, but my counts now are normal and even high. I am a perfectly fit 35 year-old woman and I even have a full head of hair again.

    I know the decisions can be difficult. There are many questions to ask and doubts abound. The major factors to look at are: 1) stage of cancer, which includes lymph node involvement and size of tumor; 2) grade of cancer; 3) hormone receptor status; 4) age; 5) fitness level, including heart function level; 6) Oncotype score if hormone positive; and 7) BRCA 1 & 2 status. Those are the ones I can think of now. Good luck with your decision.

    Mimi

    My mind is finally at ease...
    I am getting my first chemo treatment tomorrow, wait today... hahha it's past twelve so it's friday. I am still
    a bit nervous about it, I admit but not so afraid anymore. Look at all you wonderful women coming
    to my rescue and letting me learn from your own personal experiences.
    This site has become a ritual for me, I read this every night before bed. And it never fails to
    inspire me. No one understands me the way you do and I am very grateful for all the amazing
    posts on here. I will do my best to follow your foot steps.

    Ayse
  • e_hope
    e_hope Member Posts: 370
    understanding
    I totally relate to your fears about chemo!! and have said many of the same things you have. i even cried almost that entire first treatment! but, I made it through all 8 treatments. For me, I couldn't not do it no matter how a truely felt about it because I need to be around for my kids. I look at them, and my family and realized how guilty I would feel if it would come back because I didn't do everything in my power to prevent it. I trust modern medicine and yes its mind blowing how poison can make me better, but I have faith.
  • dyaneb123
    dyaneb123 Member Posts: 950
    aysemari said:

    Thanks for your patience with me
    I almost feel embarrassed for having posted this. While there's truth to this post, I also feel
    like I acted a little like 3 year old who doesn't want to do something. As you so graciously pointed
    out to me, while it is not the perfect method to battle cancer, it is still a proven method. And
    I should be grateful really. I think this week, with all the interruptions I had to my life due to
    cancer and then the surgery that kept me home while everyone else took off to the beach...
    which I have missed so much that I have actually dreams of it and I can smell it.
    I just broke down and I imagined, my whole year will be like this. Then the research I did, lead
    me to get mad and feel helpless..
    Thank you all for pointing me in the right direction again, without telling me how uncalled
    my behavior was. I really want to learn to live with this aspect of my life and not erupt uncontrollably
    like a volcano, when fear comes knocking. There are some great role models on this site and
    I will watch (read) and learn.

    I will think twice before I post from now on, I want to post things that inspire and are thought provoking,
    not whining.

    Thanks again
    Ayse

    Dont you dare apologize for
    Dont you dare apologize for the post. You touched a sore spot and sparked a good conversation. We've all been there and we all had to work through it. Thank goodness we can post those feelings and get help with working through the fears. I've only been through with chemo and rads since December...but life is pretty much back to normal already. Keep posting and don't edit yourself. If nothing else it gives us something to talk about! :)