Six Months on Affinitor Trial for Adjuvant Therapy

Texas_wedge said:

Exercise and weight loss

Neil, I feel I must put down a marker here, not to initiate a debate - we have plenty of areas of good debate in hand or awaiting our return to them - but just to record my observation that what you've said above, about exercise and weight loss, is utter tosh. 

There, I've got that off my chest!!  If it had come from anyone else but you I would have been coming at the perpetrator with an excoriating ferocity that would make anyone's hair curl.

Tosh?

Hey Tex,

You should know by now that all my opinions are always based on my research. But I agree - no need to enter a long debate here.  However, if you are interested, this is one I am fully prepared to back up with lots of extensive research.  Starting with citations galore from Gary Taubes book, "Good Calories, Bad Calories" and proceeding from there...

Regardless, no need to get sidetracked on this. I think this one we best just agree to disagree about for now. 

Texas_wedge said:

Yes, utter tosh!!

Neil, I agree that we had better not pursue this particular line, so I'll keep this to a couple of sentences and would ask that we then leave the subject in favour of domains where our, always pleasurable, discussions will prove more fruitful. 

It's because I know that you normally base your judgments on research that I was so profoundly shocked to see what you said, which no-one who has the slightest idea about the  subject could possibly come out with.  I was, accordingly, greatly relieved to find that my suspicions about the origin of your remarks were completely borne out when the name of Taubes came up - I hope that by now you appreciate the low opinion which I have of the man.

Ad Hominem

No, I was not aware of your low opinion regarding Taubes, but I guess in hindsight I should have suspected it. 

OK, time to drop this discussion.  There is no need to be side-tracked.  You and I both know that this particular debate has been going on for many decades now - so we definitely aren't going to be able to resolve it here.

Galrim said:

Putting my foot down here (partially)

Neil, based on 25 years of being a coach and trainer in pro volleyball and personal trainer alongside my "regular" job, and endless seminars on the subjects related to both, I need to make a correction here. Exercising by itself is not a good way to gain longterm durable weight loss, for that you need to make a combination of exercise, diet change and lifestyle change. Exercising is however extremely important during the actual weightloss phase, as its the optimal way to achieve a calorie deficit. Just cutting low on carbs will not permanently increase your metabolic rate which is crucial to maintainIng the weightloss. And with exercise I mean muscle as well as cardio. Both are equally important.

/G

Agreed

Galrim.  I fully agree with you. 

This is a very complex subject.  The basic problem is that I am confined by the format of this website to make one or two points by using just a few paragraphs.

My original posting - which Trevor decided was all "tosh" - was in response to an earlier posting regarding specific dietary changes made during a vacation.  As such I am afraid my major point was obscured. 

I did say that exercise was extremely important.  But, taken by itself, it is not sufficient to lose weight - unless one also restricts their caloric intake simultaneoulsy (which is not what was implied in the original post).  And I tried to explain why that is so.  If you suddenly add more exercise (as, in this case, he did by walking all over town) you will then also build up a bigger appetite than "normal".  At the same time it is very unlikely that you will voluntarily restrict your caloric intake just to stay at the very same level it was "normally".  Yes, it is true that the additional exercise should help put those added calories on as muscle rather that fat but that is limited if your insulin level is unduly elevated.  And insulin level is quickly elevated primarily in response to carbohydrates - especially simple ones (sugars and refined carbs).

However, if you limit the carbohydrates (only) that you ingest you can eat as much - or even more - total calories and still lose some weight (or at least not gain any). 

Again, the above is greatly simplified. But has been thoroughly tested and is amply documented.  I actually have done this experiment on myself (not that my particular anecdote counts more than all the other detailed research).  I have succeeded in losing 30 pounds following this kind of approach. Most importantly, I have kept those pounds off.  A big drawback of diets that rely primarily on exercise and/or total caloric restriction is that the participants generally tend not to maintain their lower weight.

I must apologize to Trevor for keeping this thread going.  As I said, it is a very complex (and clearly controversial) topic. But then again it does touch on the very heart of the matter.  Because one of the most important things we can all do in fighting cancer is just to maintain our proper body weight - no matter how we manage to do it.