Costs of Conventional vs. Alternative Therapies

13

Comments

  • devotion10
    devotion10 Member Posts: 623 Member
    John23 said:

    OK, OK, OK

    OK, OK, OK

    Can we all just (((((HUG))))) now?

     

    (oops... are my pants wet?)

     

    Best wishes youse guys.

    John

    Nope John. No hugs from me on this one. I'm done.

    Thanks though for trying to lighten things up a bit. -- C

    P.S. And why did you wet your pants?

  • devotion10
    devotion10 Member Posts: 623 Member

    its a good discussion, trying to keep it civil

    I am sorry your husband is so ill. I have already apologised for the sheep comments.

    I have shared how I am spending my life insurance payout, is that the excess wealth you are referring to ? regardless we are all entitled to pursue whatever therapies we believe in and share them here and I think also what we have learned. I only speak for myself, and suggest that if someone with a palliative diagnosis wants to consider "non conventional" therapies then that their right and they should be supported, not discouraged as often happens here for some reason. See "i love thomas thread"

    "It is not the personal decisions that someone makes with their money or their treatments that I find disturbing ... it is the discussion of one's excess wealth that has seemed sometimes insensitive when many on this board are struggling not only with their cancer diagnosis and treatments ... but, with serious financial concerns.  Also, there was the insinuation that those who would not sell the farm for alternative treatments were not seriously interested in their health or well-being."

    I only advocate "selling the farm" for potentially effective uproven therapies in a palliative context, alas, that a majority of stage 4 colorectals.

    You desire to keep the board a safe place needs to be balanced with promoting the best achievable health using appropriate therapies. whats disrespectful about telling my story and the chemo precludes immunotherapy ?

    I will continue to try and promote effective therapies based on the latest science that are accessible that I have personal experience with. If someone seeks to dissaude patients from accessing life saving therapies, well then, I'm your guy. - Pete

    PS I the interest of keeping this civil, I have made my point and will not comment further in public. PM me if you want to.

    Pete

    I have a very ill husband and you just wrote a nasty message to me that I think is out-of-line. You need to reread my post.  I wrote that I supported everyone, including your right to seek treatment that makes sense to you.  

    Pete, I find you a very disagreeable person and I do not wish to have any communication with you. The sheep comments are just one of many comments that you have made that are spiteful and hateful.  Most of the individuals on this board do not realize the mean-spirited things that you have said on your blog or other boards about the people here on CSN who use conventional therapy, or even other alternative therapies than what you have chosen.

    I come to this board to voice support, encourage kindness, and promote respect and I also come here to get support, kindness, and respect -- that is what I mean by creating a safe place for everyone.  

    Do not try to intimidate me Pete and absolutely do not make it seem as if I have not been supportive of alternative treatments.

    With all due respect, please leave me alone and kindly do not write to me.  Pete, my husband is dying ... do I really need a person like you getting testy with me?

    No.

  • renw
    renw Member Posts: 282 Member
    I have seen 6 oncologists now

    I have seen 6 oncologists now and I asked each of them the same 2 questions.

    1. Have you cured anyone with stage 4 colorectal cancer?

    2. Do you know of any stage 4 patient that was cured?

    The answer to both questions has always been NO and NO. Now I carefully pick the oncologists I see and they all had years of experience and work mostly at dedicated cancer hospitals. Well over a 100 years combined of treating mCRC with chemo and not a single person cured.  Statstics will paint a rosy picture of a 5 year OS of 5% to 16%. Problem with that statistic is that you have to be alive 5 years after diagnosis, not necessarily cured. If that reality does not sink in, simply open up a 2 year old thread on CSN. 95% of people active in discussions then are not active today. Hmmm I wonder why.

    If you have the possibility of surgery, that is pretty much the only curative path. Paliative chemo is a delayed death sentence where if the disease does not kill you, the treatent will.

    Sorry to be so negative, but that is the reality. There are miracles and one in about 60000 have a spontaneous remission, but that's a very low number.

    Pete I believe is on the right track, and if there is a cure it lies with the immune system. If you still believe chemo will save you, ask your oncologist the same two questions. Since chemo is the standard treatment surely your oncologist cured at least one person right? I realised that chemo fir stage 4 mCRC was a dead end within few weeks after my diagnosis and after monts of research I came to the same realisation as Pete. Like pete I practice what I preach. I am off chemo now despite CEA in the 3000 range, extensive liver mets etc. etc. and am focused on alternate, mostly immuno based  therapies. What I am doing may or may not work, but the mainstream offers a mean OS average of just 12-36 months. I do not find this acceptable.

  • tanstaafl
    tanstaafl Member Posts: 1,313 Member
    cost cutting with all the comforts of home

    Much of the important CAM stuff can be done for $1-2 per day bought discounted.  Generic cimetidine, celecoxib (not yet in a corrupt US market), metformin, aspirin,  vitamin D3, oral vitamin C, fish oil, many potent strength supplements at 3-10 cents each.     

    Even IV vitamin C costs can be tremendously reduced on a volume basis with a nearby nurse.  My wife seldom even leaves the house for her IV vitamin C.   Which also is a huge QoL improvement, missing out on those cross town drives.  

    Truth is, much of our chemo price structure is a product of medical fascism preventing direct competition.   My wife's UFT chemo pills cost $200 per month for a 5FU-LV type treatment.  This is the nicest 5FU based treatment on the planet, where independent of the cancer action, it makes you feel slightly better.  I know that we're still being screwed 300+% since the asian stuff is not available at Walmart etc (or anywhere in the US, three "siegs" for the FDA).  Xeloda, $$$$ per mo, is the closest alternative in the US, and not so nice.

     

  • John23
    John23 Member Posts: 2,122 Member

    Nope John. No hugs from me on this one. I'm done.

    Thanks though for trying to lighten things up a bit. -- C

    P.S. And why did you wet your pants?

    Awww....

    That last one was a reply to Pete, not you, Cyn.... It just fell where it fell...

    Oh... and I was deep sea diving. Pants are wet, and that's a clam in my pocket.

     

    Oh well....

    Better days are coming! I'm hoping they'll all be healthy ones for all of us!

    John

     

  • lilacbrroller
    lilacbrroller Member Posts: 412 Member
    tanstaafl said:

    cost cutting with all the comforts of home

    Much of the important CAM stuff can be done for $1-2 per day bought discounted.  Generic cimetidine, celecoxib (not yet in a corrupt US market), metformin, aspirin,  vitamin D3, oral vitamin C, fish oil, many potent strength supplements at 3-10 cents each.     

    Even IV vitamin C costs can be tremendously reduced on a volume basis with a nearby nurse.  My wife seldom even leaves the house for her IV vitamin C.   Which also is a huge QoL improvement, missing out on those cross town drives.  

    Truth is, much of our chemo price structure is a product of medical fascism preventing direct competition.   My wife's UFT chemo pills cost $200 per month for a 5FU-LV type treatment.  This is the nicest 5FU based treatment on the planet, where independent of the cancer action, it makes you feel slightly better.  I know that we're still being screwed 300+% since the asian stuff is not available at Walmart etc (or anywhere in the US, three "siegs" for the FDA).  Xeloda, $$$$ per mo, is the closest alternative in the US, and not so nice.

     

    on the trail..

    I looked up UFT and it is an actual drug, approved for use in Asia and the UK.  Why isn't it available in the US?  I searched the NIH clinical trials site and found that it is/was being tested for use with colorectal patients. Seems in one test it is being compared to Xeloda, my new best friend. Tanstaafl - how do you buy it?  

    http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00905047?term=tegafur-uracil&rank=7

    I don't understand why there aren't reciprocal approval agreements between countries or bodies (such as the US) that have rigorous testing and approval processes. If a drug is approved in the UK and works, why do we have to wait 12 years in the US for it to be approved???

    I did more research on removab, and actually wrote to the German drug company, citing successes in Hallwang as a wonder drug, and asked when it would be approved in the US for colorectal cancer (and not just malingnant ascites?)  I will probably get a form letter answer back, but it can't hurt to raise the issue. 

    I'm exploring clinical trials and some things don't make any sense, like a good drug I can't get until I've exhausted all other options. Seems pretty rigid, eh?  Why does Folfox have to be first line therapy? Say removab is approved and really does work, but it's only approved as a third line therapy, does that mean that I can't get it until I've been whacked by Folfox and Folfri first? I'm trying to get my head around the whole sequence of American conventional treatment, and I've learned that there definitely is one. 

    anyway I like such threads because I want information about therapies, and also want a place to talk about it. My friends without cancer are not interested! My stage IV breast cancer bud is a good confidante. 

    - Karin

  • tanstaafl
    tanstaafl Member Posts: 1,313 Member

    on the trail..

    I looked up UFT and it is an actual drug, approved for use in Asia and the UK.  Why isn't it available in the US?  I searched the NIH clinical trials site and found that it is/was being tested for use with colorectal patients. Seems in one test it is being compared to Xeloda, my new best friend. Tanstaafl - how do you buy it?  

    http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00905047?term=tegafur-uracil&rank=7

    I don't understand why there aren't reciprocal approval agreements between countries or bodies (such as the US) that have rigorous testing and approval processes. If a drug is approved in the UK and works, why do we have to wait 12 years in the US for it to be approved???

    I did more research on removab, and actually wrote to the German drug company, citing successes in Hallwang as a wonder drug, and asked when it would be approved in the US for colorectal cancer (and not just malingnant ascites?)  I will probably get a form letter answer back, but it can't hurt to raise the issue. 

    I'm exploring clinical trials and some things don't make any sense, like a good drug I can't get until I've exhausted all other options. Seems pretty rigid, eh?  Why does Folfox have to be first line therapy? Say removab is approved and really does work, but it's only approved as a third line therapy, does that mean that I can't get it until I've been whacked by Folfox and Folfri first? I'm trying to get my head around the whole sequence of American conventional treatment, and I've learned that there definitely is one. 

    anyway I like such threads because I want information about therapies, and also want a place to talk about it. My friends without cancer are not interested! My stage IV breast cancer bud is a good confidante. 

    - Karin

    fda

    The FDA isn't planning on approving UFT unless Congress or the president wises up enough to start firing corrupt sr deadwood en masse if they don't start doing their job for the public's benefit.  I can only read FDA's refusal as protectionism for paid buddies. 

    As for importation, you have to get a US doctor to sponsor your use, good luck, AND can only bring in something like a 50-60 day supply.   So even if your actual max dose is 2/3 of scrip, that's 90 days or less, before time to go outside and buy more.

     

  • PhillieG
    PhillieG Member Posts: 4,866 Member
    renw said:

    I have seen 6 oncologists now

    I have seen 6 oncologists now and I asked each of them the same 2 questions.

    1. Have you cured anyone with stage 4 colorectal cancer?

    2. Do you know of any stage 4 patient that was cured?

    The answer to both questions has always been NO and NO. Now I carefully pick the oncologists I see and they all had years of experience and work mostly at dedicated cancer hospitals. Well over a 100 years combined of treating mCRC with chemo and not a single person cured.  Statstics will paint a rosy picture of a 5 year OS of 5% to 16%. Problem with that statistic is that you have to be alive 5 years after diagnosis, not necessarily cured. If that reality does not sink in, simply open up a 2 year old thread on CSN. 95% of people active in discussions then are not active today. Hmmm I wonder why.

    If you have the possibility of surgery, that is pretty much the only curative path. Paliative chemo is a delayed death sentence where if the disease does not kill you, the treatent will.

    Sorry to be so negative, but that is the reality. There are miracles and one in about 60000 have a spontaneous remission, but that's a very low number.

    Pete I believe is on the right track, and if there is a cure it lies with the immune system. If you still believe chemo will save you, ask your oncologist the same two questions. Since chemo is the standard treatment surely your oncologist cured at least one person right? I realised that chemo fir stage 4 mCRC was a dead end within few weeks after my diagnosis and after monts of research I came to the same realisation as Pete. Like pete I practice what I preach. I am off chemo now despite CEA in the 3000 range, extensive liver mets etc. etc. and am focused on alternate, mostly immuno based  therapies. What I am doing may or may not work, but the mainstream offers a mean OS average of just 12-36 months. I do not find this acceptable.

    .

    Wall

  • renw
    renw Member Posts: 282 Member
    PhillieG said:

    .

    Wall

    stage 4 five years free? I'll

    stage 4 five years free? I'll bet the farm that such survivors had surgery to remove the cancer, colorectomy, liver resection etc. And yes I will see #7, #8 and #9 this month, all specialising in immuno based therapies. This will be interesting to compare.

    More than one way to deal with cancer? yes there are two ways. You either cut it out, or have your immune system clear it.

  • wawaju04976
    wawaju04976 Member Posts: 316 Member

    Yes, tanstaafl ... you are right.

    The thread will stand as is ... I am just sorry that it took a bad turn, I guess it was a bit risky. I had just hoped that we could share some thoughts openly without the rants, but everyone has a right to post and voice their feelings so it is what it is. -- Cynthia

    Thinking of you

    Cyndy (sp????), I am sorry about your husband. You are right about not needing the extra stress of this. You have not offended anyone with either conventional or alternative practices. I use both, and I appreciate you being positive about both. But, I didn't know your situation, and I just wanted to tell you I am sorry your husband is going thru this (and u too). I hope he is comfortable (as comfortable as he can be, I mean).

    Judy

  • wawaju04976
    wawaju04976 Member Posts: 316 Member
    renw said:

    I have seen 6 oncologists now

    I have seen 6 oncologists now and I asked each of them the same 2 questions.

    1. Have you cured anyone with stage 4 colorectal cancer?

    2. Do you know of any stage 4 patient that was cured?

    The answer to both questions has always been NO and NO. Now I carefully pick the oncologists I see and they all had years of experience and work mostly at dedicated cancer hospitals. Well over a 100 years combined of treating mCRC with chemo and not a single person cured.  Statstics will paint a rosy picture of a 5 year OS of 5% to 16%. Problem with that statistic is that you have to be alive 5 years after diagnosis, not necessarily cured. If that reality does not sink in, simply open up a 2 year old thread on CSN. 95% of people active in discussions then are not active today. Hmmm I wonder why.

    If you have the possibility of surgery, that is pretty much the only curative path. Paliative chemo is a delayed death sentence where if the disease does not kill you, the treatent will.

    Sorry to be so negative, but that is the reality. There are miracles and one in about 60000 have a spontaneous remission, but that's a very low number.

    Pete I believe is on the right track, and if there is a cure it lies with the immune system. If you still believe chemo will save you, ask your oncologist the same two questions. Since chemo is the standard treatment surely your oncologist cured at least one person right? I realised that chemo fir stage 4 mCRC was a dead end within few weeks after my diagnosis and after monts of research I came to the same realisation as Pete. Like pete I practice what I preach. I am off chemo now despite CEA in the 3000 range, extensive liver mets etc. etc. and am focused on alternate, mostly immuno based  therapies. What I am doing may or may not work, but the mainstream offers a mean OS average of just 12-36 months. I do not find this acceptable.

    Chemo then surgery

    There are many times surgery is not an option, as tumors are too big. Many people have chemo, the tumors shrink, and then they are able to have surgery. Just throwing that out there. I'm doing both chemo (11th folfox this coming Friday) and an alternative. I had a PET scan last week and will get the results on Friday. I am back teaching half-time, but will return to full-time May 8th. I feel great (knock on wood again), probably better than I have in years.

    Judy

  • annalexandria
    annalexandria Member Posts: 2,571 Member

    Mine offer hope

    My conventional therapies offer me hope, I was given two weeks without chemo, 4 to 6 months with chemo. My CEA was over 2000, I was in dire straits. Over 3 years later I'm still here.  I don't need to be told my therapy doesn't offer hope, none of us do.  You can stop telling us we don't have hope, and aren't given hope, WE have plenty of hope.

    Winter Marie

    Conventional surgery...

    has given me years of additional life (although even with 16 months NED, I still wouldn't say the word "cure"...we've all seen how cancer gets the last laugh).  I imagine it must be hard on any newbies here, reading how the only treatments that might help them are not readily available, and the things that are available, and being recommended by their docs, are all hopeless scams.  AA

  • devotion10
    devotion10 Member Posts: 623 Member

    Thinking of you

    Cyndy (sp????), I am sorry about your husband. You are right about not needing the extra stress of this. You have not offended anyone with either conventional or alternative practices. I use both, and I appreciate you being positive about both. But, I didn't know your situation, and I just wanted to tell you I am sorry your husband is going thru this (and u too). I hope he is comfortable (as comfortable as he can be, I mean).

    Judy

    Thank you Judy ... very much.

    I appreciate your words of support.  It is odd, I suppose I don't reveal much in my posts about my husband and unless one goes to my profile page one might not know our situation.  It makes me feel good to come to the board and try to help others (and then there is my self-defined role of hall monitor lol).  Perhaps it is an escape for me from my world which is at present rather challenging.  I always feel better though after I come here and read all the tremendous support that folks provide each other. The occasional flare-up doesn't deter me, it is a public forum and individuals can say mostly whatever they wish unless it violates the forum rules.   I try to be balanced and open-minded about all these various treatments ... we all have something to share.  I can just hear it so much easier when it is gently handed to me rather than thrown. I do appreciate your taking the time to send me some kind words. -- Best, Cynthia

  • annalexandria
    annalexandria Member Posts: 2,571 Member
    renw said:

    I have seen 6 oncologists now

    I have seen 6 oncologists now and I asked each of them the same 2 questions.

    1. Have you cured anyone with stage 4 colorectal cancer?

    2. Do you know of any stage 4 patient that was cured?

    The answer to both questions has always been NO and NO. Now I carefully pick the oncologists I see and they all had years of experience and work mostly at dedicated cancer hospitals. Well over a 100 years combined of treating mCRC with chemo and not a single person cured.  Statstics will paint a rosy picture of a 5 year OS of 5% to 16%. Problem with that statistic is that you have to be alive 5 years after diagnosis, not necessarily cured. If that reality does not sink in, simply open up a 2 year old thread on CSN. 95% of people active in discussions then are not active today. Hmmm I wonder why.

    If you have the possibility of surgery, that is pretty much the only curative path. Paliative chemo is a delayed death sentence where if the disease does not kill you, the treatent will.

    Sorry to be so negative, but that is the reality. There are miracles and one in about 60000 have a spontaneous remission, but that's a very low number.

    Pete I believe is on the right track, and if there is a cure it lies with the immune system. If you still believe chemo will save you, ask your oncologist the same two questions. Since chemo is the standard treatment surely your oncologist cured at least one person right? I realised that chemo fir stage 4 mCRC was a dead end within few weeks after my diagnosis and after monts of research I came to the same realisation as Pete. Like pete I practice what I preach. I am off chemo now despite CEA in the 3000 range, extensive liver mets etc. etc. and am focused on alternate, mostly immuno based  therapies. What I am doing may or may not work, but the mainstream offers a mean OS average of just 12-36 months. I do not find this acceptable.

    for people who go through the German treatment?  What do the numbers look like for stage 4 patients, especially at the 5 year mark?  I ask this in all seriousness, and I have no idea what the answer is.  Pete mentioned once that one of the doctors there said his response was very unusual, but what is the usual response?  One thing that has bothered me about this whole discussion is the lack of solid evidence and I know you're coming at this from that angle.  When we make the decision to do chemo, surgery, etc, we have access to hard numbers on the success rates.  We all know they aren't great.  But what I would love to know is if the German therapies have a proven track record at doing better. I mean, many folks with stage 4 do reach short-term remission with chemo (which is were Pete is at), and of course the cancer recurrs, usually in the first two years.  What happens with these alt therapies that is different?  What are the five year survival rates?

    I'm asking these questions about of genuine curiousity.  If my cancer comes back, as it may very well, I will not be a candidate for chemo.  I will have to look elsewhere for tx, but I would have to be able to sit down with these people and be told (just as my onc did before I started conventional tx), these are the stats for your situation, here's how likely it is to work and keep you alive for 5 years.  

    Thanks, AA

  • annalexandria
    annalexandria Member Posts: 2,571 Member
    tanstaafl said:

    cost cutting with all the comforts of home

    Much of the important CAM stuff can be done for $1-2 per day bought discounted.  Generic cimetidine, celecoxib (not yet in a corrupt US market), metformin, aspirin,  vitamin D3, oral vitamin C, fish oil, many potent strength supplements at 3-10 cents each.     

    Even IV vitamin C costs can be tremendously reduced on a volume basis with a nearby nurse.  My wife seldom even leaves the house for her IV vitamin C.   Which also is a huge QoL improvement, missing out on those cross town drives.  

    Truth is, much of our chemo price structure is a product of medical fascism preventing direct competition.   My wife's UFT chemo pills cost $200 per month for a 5FU-LV type treatment.  This is the nicest 5FU based treatment on the planet, where independent of the cancer action, it makes you feel slightly better.  I know that we're still being screwed 300+% since the asian stuff is not available at Walmart etc (or anywhere in the US, three "siegs" for the FDA).  Xeloda, $$$$ per mo, is the closest alternative in the US, and not so nice.

     

    I assume your "sieg"

    is referencing Nazi Germany?  Do you really think we live in a country that is the equivalent of Nazi Germany?  And if you're simply employing hyperbole, I have to say I don't think much of it.  Might be better to find some other frame of reference for comparison.  AA

  • renw
    renw Member Posts: 282 Member

    Mine offer hope

    My conventional therapies offer me hope, I was given two weeks without chemo, 4 to 6 months with chemo. My CEA was over 2000, I was in dire straits. Over 3 years later I'm still here.  I don't need to be told my therapy doesn't offer hope, none of us do.  You can stop telling us we don't have hope, and aren't given hope, WE have plenty of hope.

    Winter Marie

    If you are lucky enough to be

    If you are lucky enough to be stage 4 and qualify for surgery, then you have hope. If like me or pete, surgery is not an option, and you are only offered paliative chemo for the rest of your life, traditional medicine offers no hope.

  • renw
    renw Member Posts: 282 Member

    for people who go through the German treatment?  What do the numbers look like for stage 4 patients, especially at the 5 year mark?  I ask this in all seriousness, and I have no idea what the answer is.  Pete mentioned once that one of the doctors there said his response was very unusual, but what is the usual response?  One thing that has bothered me about this whole discussion is the lack of solid evidence and I know you're coming at this from that angle.  When we make the decision to do chemo, surgery, etc, we have access to hard numbers on the success rates.  We all know they aren't great.  But what I would love to know is if the German therapies have a proven track record at doing better. I mean, many folks with stage 4 do reach short-term remission with chemo (which is were Pete is at), and of course the cancer recurrs, usually in the first two years.  What happens with these alt therapies that is different?  What are the five year survival rates?

    I'm asking these questions about of genuine curiousity.  If my cancer comes back, as it may very well, I will not be a candidate for chemo.  I will have to look elsewhere for tx, but I would have to be able to sit down with these people and be told (just as my onc did before I started conventional tx), these are the stats for your situation, here's how likely it is to work and keep you alive for 5 years.  

    Thanks, AA

    There are no official stats

    There are no official stats that I was able to get, but pete being an exception rathar than the rule bothered me so I asked more questions. I was told that pete's case is by far not unique and the immunologist has seen many similar results. Dendritic cell therapy alone, I was told has  a 30% responce rate. Chemo has a responce rate of 70-90%, so the stats are not great. I have also been told that pre-treatment with removab increases the chances as the triclonal antibody binds to the cancer cells exposing them to the immune system. I see the dendritic vaccine as another piece in the puzzle, but I am backing it up with at least 5 other treatments, all diligently researched.

     

  • wawaju04976
    wawaju04976 Member Posts: 316 Member

    Thank you Judy ... very much.

    I appreciate your words of support.  It is odd, I suppose I don't reveal much in my posts about my husband and unless one goes to my profile page one might not know our situation.  It makes me feel good to come to the board and try to help others (and then there is my self-defined role of hall monitor lol).  Perhaps it is an escape for me from my world which is at present rather challenging.  I always feel better though after I come here and read all the tremendous support that folks provide each other. The occasional flare-up doesn't deter me, it is a public forum and individuals can say mostly whatever they wish unless it violates the forum rules.   I try to be balanced and open-minded about all these various treatments ... we all have something to share.  I can just hear it so much easier when it is gently handed to me rather than thrown. I do appreciate your taking the time to send me some kind words. -- Best, Cynthia

    I think of it lik AA...you

    I think of it lik AA...you take what you need, and leave the rest...

    I have a notebook I keep. When I come across something on here (conventional or alternative) I put it in my notebook. Then, I know if my treatment is not working, I can say to my oncologist, "Hey, what about this, or this, or this...?"

    Judy

  • PhillieG
    PhillieG Member Posts: 4,866 Member

    my oncologist only offered palliative

    my way represents the only potential way to recover from inoperable diverse peritoneal, liver and lung mets.

    I hope my way works, because existing therapies don't offer hope. Thats why I hope!

    Pete

    I really believe that if you used the two words "for me" after your comments there wouldn't be these ridiculous fights over this topic. You seem to often forget how unique cancer is, therefore so are the effectiveness of treatments for each of us.

    For me, that would make a big difference in what you have to say and how you come across. It leaves room for the differing opinions/options that there are for everyone.

  • PhillieG
    PhillieG Member Posts: 4,866 Member
    renw said:

    If you are lucky enough to be

    If you are lucky enough to be stage 4 and qualify for surgery, then you have hope. If like me or pete, surgery is not an option, and you are only offered paliative chemo for the rest of your life, traditional medicine offers no hope.

    Hope

    Nine years ago surgery wasn't an option for me* due to large tumors in my liver. I went on Avastin for 5 months (it would have been 6 months but it was approved 1 month after my DX) and it shrunk my tumors and gave me a safe margin for the resection.

    One can argue (and no doubt will) whether Avastin is chemo or traditional medicine or not. I have no doubt that if I had been in a position where tradition medicine wouldn't work for me* that I too would have sought out other treatment options. 

    Hopefully we all can find treatments that help each of us succeed or life a quality life but to lump everyone & everything together like it's all the same makes little, if any, sense*.

    *just trying to give examples of how we all resond differently.
    I want to believe that people often don't really read what they're about to post.