Is extending life always the best choice

2

Comments

  • mrspjd
    mrspjd Member Posts: 694 Member

    Thanks for you opinion
    Thank you very much for you post. I really feel like I am so alone feeling the way I do. I figure it took roughtly 12 years to get from "a single focus of adenocarcinoma" to where I am today. I really don't want to make my life more miserable just to extend the miserablness.

    Thanks again.

    David

    Options
    Crisis Hotlines/Resources/Organizations

    1-800-273-TALK and 1-800-SUICIDE the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline-A 24/7 hotline for callers in the United States

    1-800-799-4TTY (4889) TTY/TDD services at the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline (USA)

    800-273-TALK   
    A US Veterans Crisis Hotline

    veteranscrisisline.net
    A US Veterans Online chat and information 
  • cchqnetman
    cchqnetman Member Posts: 119
    mrspjd said:

    Options
    Crisis Hotlines/Resources/Organizations

    1-800-273-TALK and 1-800-SUICIDE the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline-A 24/7 hotline for callers in the United States

    1-800-799-4TTY (4889) TTY/TDD services at the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline (USA)

    800-273-TALK   
    A US Veterans Crisis Hotline

    veteranscrisisline.net
    A US Veterans Online chat and information 

    Thanks
    Thanks. Appreciate the info and concern.

    David
  • limpndamp
    limpndamp Member Posts: 7
    spinal fusion
    David,

    I can speak to spinal fusion, because I had the c4/5; c5/6 vertebrae fused about 3 years ago (a few months before being diagnosed with PCa). I had severe spinal stenosis. The discs were bulging into my spinal cord. The doc told me I was a fender-bender away from being paralyzed. In fact, if I did not have the fusion surgery, I probably would be paralyzed in 5 to 10 years. Although my ability to turn my head is only slightly restricted, I can honestly say that I am completely satisfied with the outcome. The loss of flexibility and no pain versus the pain prior to surgery was an easy trade-off. I would do it again without hesitation.

    I, too, was recently diagnosed with chronic kidney failure. Stage IIIa. We are in a "wait-and-see" mode, trying to limit the advancement by proper diet.

    My approach to all this (including PCa) is to separate each disease and treat it on it's own. My neck (and arm) are pain free; my PSA is nearly undectable; and I'm trying to eat healthier.
  • cchqnetman
    cchqnetman Member Posts: 119
    limpndamp said:

    spinal fusion
    David,

    I can speak to spinal fusion, because I had the c4/5; c5/6 vertebrae fused about 3 years ago (a few months before being diagnosed with PCa). I had severe spinal stenosis. The discs were bulging into my spinal cord. The doc told me I was a fender-bender away from being paralyzed. In fact, if I did not have the fusion surgery, I probably would be paralyzed in 5 to 10 years. Although my ability to turn my head is only slightly restricted, I can honestly say that I am completely satisfied with the outcome. The loss of flexibility and no pain versus the pain prior to surgery was an easy trade-off. I would do it again without hesitation.

    I, too, was recently diagnosed with chronic kidney failure. Stage IIIa. We are in a "wait-and-see" mode, trying to limit the advancement by proper diet.

    My approach to all this (including PCa) is to separate each disease and treat it on it's own. My neck (and arm) are pain free; my PSA is nearly undectable; and I'm trying to eat healthier.

    Pain in the neck
    Thank you so much for the comments on the spinal fusion!! That is what is causing me the most pain and the thing I would like to fix the most. The doc said it looked like my c3/4; c4/5; and c5/6 were worn out. I have an MRI scheduled for Nov 1 and am anxious to see what it says. I go back to the doc in Dec. He is just a pain management doc. He said he is probably going to refer me to a neurologist that can talk to me about fusing them. Not sure I want to have it done but I will listen.

    I hear what you say about treating each problem separately but I tend to use a car as an analogy. I have a car that has several things wrong with it. I don’t want to fix one thing that will allow me to drive it longer if it wasn't a pleasure to drive in the first place and fixing the one thing is going to meke it less pleasureable to drive.

    My kidney disease is in Stage I. They suspect is caused by years of taking Naproxen for my neck. It has kind of settled down and not getting any worse.

    Thanks again for the comments. I really appreciated hearing from someone who has had the spinal fusion. Can you explain a little bit about what they did and the hospital stay/recovery time?

    Thanks!!

    David
  • cchqnetman
    cchqnetman Member Posts: 119
    limpndamp said:

    spinal fusion
    David,

    I can speak to spinal fusion, because I had the c4/5; c5/6 vertebrae fused about 3 years ago (a few months before being diagnosed with PCa). I had severe spinal stenosis. The discs were bulging into my spinal cord. The doc told me I was a fender-bender away from being paralyzed. In fact, if I did not have the fusion surgery, I probably would be paralyzed in 5 to 10 years. Although my ability to turn my head is only slightly restricted, I can honestly say that I am completely satisfied with the outcome. The loss of flexibility and no pain versus the pain prior to surgery was an easy trade-off. I would do it again without hesitation.

    I, too, was recently diagnosed with chronic kidney failure. Stage IIIa. We are in a "wait-and-see" mode, trying to limit the advancement by proper diet.

    My approach to all this (including PCa) is to separate each disease and treat it on it's own. My neck (and arm) are pain free; my PSA is nearly undectable; and I'm trying to eat healthier.

    Pain in the neck
    Thank you so much for the comments on the spinal fusion!! That is what is causing me the most pain and the thing I would like to fix the most. The doc said it looked like my c3/4; c4/5; and c5/6 were worn out. I have an MRI scheduled for Nov 1 and am anxious to see what it says. I go back to the doc in Dec. He is just a pain management doc. He said he is probably going to refer me to a neurologist that can talk to me about fusing them. Not sure I want to have it done but I will listen.

    I hear what you say about treating each problem separately but I tend to use a car as an analogy. I have a car that has several things wrong with it. I don’t want to fix one thing that will allow me to drive it longer if it wasn't a pleasure to drive in the first place and fixing the one thing is going to meke it less pleasureable to drive.

    My kidney disease is in Stage I. They suspect is caused by years of taking Naproxen for my neck. It has kind of settled down and not getting any worse.

    Thanks again for the comments. I really appreciated hearing from someone who has had the spinal fusion. Can you explain a little bit about what they did and the hospital stay/recovery time?

    Thanks!!

    David
  • limpndamp
    limpndamp Member Posts: 7

    Pain in the neck
    Thank you so much for the comments on the spinal fusion!! That is what is causing me the most pain and the thing I would like to fix the most. The doc said it looked like my c3/4; c4/5; and c5/6 were worn out. I have an MRI scheduled for Nov 1 and am anxious to see what it says. I go back to the doc in Dec. He is just a pain management doc. He said he is probably going to refer me to a neurologist that can talk to me about fusing them. Not sure I want to have it done but I will listen.

    I hear what you say about treating each problem separately but I tend to use a car as an analogy. I have a car that has several things wrong with it. I don’t want to fix one thing that will allow me to drive it longer if it wasn't a pleasure to drive in the first place and fixing the one thing is going to meke it less pleasureable to drive.

    My kidney disease is in Stage I. They suspect is caused by years of taking Naproxen for my neck. It has kind of settled down and not getting any worse.

    Thanks again for the comments. I really appreciated hearing from someone who has had the spinal fusion. Can you explain a little bit about what they did and the hospital stay/recovery time?

    Thanks!!

    David

    spinal fusion
    David,

    For more information, do a web search on "cervical discectomy with fusion".

    I only had the C4/5; C5/6 discs removed, although it was first suspected that the C3/4 would also need to be removed. My doctor, a neurosurgeon, said that the MRI sometimes makes things look worse than they actually are. He said he would make the decision about the C3/4 when he went in. In addition to an MRI, I also had a myelogram (sp?) which is a procedure where you are face down on a tilting table, a dye is injected into the lower spinal canal, and the table is tilted so your head is closer to the floor so the dye goes toward your head and xrays are made. This supposedly gives a better result than the MRI. I think my doc said he would not operate with having the myelogram results with him during surgery. This procedure was surprisingly pain free (other than the position I had to put my head during the test aggravated the bulging discs). It probably only took 15 minutes to complete as an outpatient. A numbing agent was used at the injection site. I don't remember having any side effects from this procedure. I drove myself to it, and home afterward.

    As for the spinal fusion surgery, it also was relatively pain free. There is about a one to one and a half inch incision on the lower neck. The discs are removed, vertebrae bone is ground away to make room for a piece of cadaver bone to be inserted in place of the disc. A metal plate that spans the vertebrae which had the discs removed is screwed into the vertebrae. It makes for quite an interesting xray!!

    My recovery couldn't be easier. I spent one nite in the hospital, and wore a neck brace for one day. Lifting was limited to something like nothing heavier than a cup of coffee for several weeks. The doc said, on a scale of one to ten (most painful), recovering from neck surgery is about a two; whereas lower back surgery is a nine. I think I was off pain meds two days after surgery.

    I would recommend you find a good neurosurgeon if you are going to have the surgery. An orthopaedic surgeon could do it, but considering the proximity to the spinal cord, I wanted a neurosurgeon doing it.

    As I said before, I would not hesitate to have this done again.
  • cchqnetman
    cchqnetman Member Posts: 119
    limpndamp said:

    spinal fusion
    David,

    For more information, do a web search on "cervical discectomy with fusion".

    I only had the C4/5; C5/6 discs removed, although it was first suspected that the C3/4 would also need to be removed. My doctor, a neurosurgeon, said that the MRI sometimes makes things look worse than they actually are. He said he would make the decision about the C3/4 when he went in. In addition to an MRI, I also had a myelogram (sp?) which is a procedure where you are face down on a tilting table, a dye is injected into the lower spinal canal, and the table is tilted so your head is closer to the floor so the dye goes toward your head and xrays are made. This supposedly gives a better result than the MRI. I think my doc said he would not operate with having the myelogram results with him during surgery. This procedure was surprisingly pain free (other than the position I had to put my head during the test aggravated the bulging discs). It probably only took 15 minutes to complete as an outpatient. A numbing agent was used at the injection site. I don't remember having any side effects from this procedure. I drove myself to it, and home afterward.

    As for the spinal fusion surgery, it also was relatively pain free. There is about a one to one and a half inch incision on the lower neck. The discs are removed, vertebrae bone is ground away to make room for a piece of cadaver bone to be inserted in place of the disc. A metal plate that spans the vertebrae which had the discs removed is screwed into the vertebrae. It makes for quite an interesting xray!!

    My recovery couldn't be easier. I spent one nite in the hospital, and wore a neck brace for one day. Lifting was limited to something like nothing heavier than a cup of coffee for several weeks. The doc said, on a scale of one to ten (most painful), recovering from neck surgery is about a two; whereas lower back surgery is a nine. I think I was off pain meds two days after surgery.

    I would recommend you find a good neurosurgeon if you are going to have the surgery. An orthopaedic surgeon could do it, but considering the proximity to the spinal cord, I wanted a neurosurgeon doing it.

    As I said before, I would not hesitate to have this done again.

    Thanks.
    Thanks for the info. I will definitely do the research.

    Thanks again.

    David
  • texhutch5
    texhutch5 Member Posts: 4
    Quality of life
    David,
    I'm with you on not wanting emotional replys. I was 47 when diagnosed with all 12 biopsy needles positive with gleason 7-9s. My PSA before surgery was 34 and after my two month follow up, it shot to 188. My urologist staged it at the time T3A. I was told to start treatment or die. So I had the robotic surgery and after the two month follow up I started injections of Lupron. All I could find on the internet was the standard message found on almost all medical websites, or people wanting to give hope and cheer. I wanted to know what really happens, and what men go through with the disease and treatments. I appreciated the few men that shared their actual experiences. So far, I have survived for five and a half years since treatemens began. After consulting five different oncologist, including one at MD Aderson in Houston, they all agreed that hormone blocking was the best for me. So I have been suffering from the effects of very low testosterone for over five years. My PSA still remains undetectable, so I haven't needed chemo. The main thing that concernes me about your situation is you DJD. The hormone deprivation has caused me severe osteoporosis. So far, I have had two fractures in my heels, making it difficult to walk. My lower back is in constant discomfort. And my once muscular arms are resembling my grandma's. When your testosterone is close to castrate levels, you will start losing bone very quickly. You will also start losing muscle mass and energy, making exercise difficult.For the bones, I have taken Zometa and Alendronate, with little success. If you are experiencing depression, the hormone deprivation will probably make it worse at some point. Currently I am taking Cymbalta to combat pain and depression...it helps a little, but thats all. Things got so bad lately, that my oncologist agreed to give me a treatment holiday. I am off of the alendronate and didn't have my scheduled Eligard shot. We are going to let my testosterone rise and carefully monitor my PSA...hoping that this will improve my quality of life. It gave me a psychological boost so far, and am hoping to feel normal soon. I have done a lot of living in the past five years, and don't have regrets for treating the cancer as I did. My advice to you is to talk to your orthopedic surgeons about the impact that hormone deprivation would have, should you have to go this route. And if you are told you need hormone deprivation, try try try to talk the doctor into intermittent treatment. Which means after your PSA is brought down to undetecable with hormone treatment, then let your testoterone recover for as long as you can before getting your next treatment. If you can do this, you might be able to treat the cancer and still have a good quality of life. I hope this helps.
  • cchqnetman
    cchqnetman Member Posts: 119
    texhutch5 said:

    Quality of life
    David,
    I'm with you on not wanting emotional replys. I was 47 when diagnosed with all 12 biopsy needles positive with gleason 7-9s. My PSA before surgery was 34 and after my two month follow up, it shot to 188. My urologist staged it at the time T3A. I was told to start treatment or die. So I had the robotic surgery and after the two month follow up I started injections of Lupron. All I could find on the internet was the standard message found on almost all medical websites, or people wanting to give hope and cheer. I wanted to know what really happens, and what men go through with the disease and treatments. I appreciated the few men that shared their actual experiences. So far, I have survived for five and a half years since treatemens began. After consulting five different oncologist, including one at MD Aderson in Houston, they all agreed that hormone blocking was the best for me. So I have been suffering from the effects of very low testosterone for over five years. My PSA still remains undetectable, so I haven't needed chemo. The main thing that concernes me about your situation is you DJD. The hormone deprivation has caused me severe osteoporosis. So far, I have had two fractures in my heels, making it difficult to walk. My lower back is in constant discomfort. And my once muscular arms are resembling my grandma's. When your testosterone is close to castrate levels, you will start losing bone very quickly. You will also start losing muscle mass and energy, making exercise difficult.For the bones, I have taken Zometa and Alendronate, with little success. If you are experiencing depression, the hormone deprivation will probably make it worse at some point. Currently I am taking Cymbalta to combat pain and depression...it helps a little, but thats all. Things got so bad lately, that my oncologist agreed to give me a treatment holiday. I am off of the alendronate and didn't have my scheduled Eligard shot. We are going to let my testosterone rise and carefully monitor my PSA...hoping that this will improve my quality of life. It gave me a psychological boost so far, and am hoping to feel normal soon. I have done a lot of living in the past five years, and don't have regrets for treating the cancer as I did. My advice to you is to talk to your orthopedic surgeons about the impact that hormone deprivation would have, should you have to go this route. And if you are told you need hormone deprivation, try try try to talk the doctor into intermittent treatment. Which means after your PSA is brought down to undetecable with hormone treatment, then let your testoterone recover for as long as you can before getting your next treatment. If you can do this, you might be able to treat the cancer and still have a good quality of life. I hope this helps.

    Good Advice
    Thanks for the advice. I will definitely keep that in mind.

    Thanks again!!

    David
  • guards
    guards Member Posts: 72

    Good Advice
    Thanks for the advice. I will definitely keep that in mind.

    Thanks again!!

    David

    Fusion
    Don't know how I missed the spine problem but I did. Totally different problem get it fixed! Went through that pain took it all the way to a very dramatic sawyer-brown symptom as they called it. Partial parralis left side (hand and leg dragging) right side very little feeling of cold, heat or sensation. before I finally went to a neurologist , was trying to get it done with a bone cruncher. Got to the doctor that night , did an mri that evening and surgery the next AM seems I waited so long I did some spinal chord injury ( guess we have a cover like wire does aand I scraped a lot off. The pain was big time and consistant but being the tough guy I was gonna live with it. The surgery was a sucess as I got the use of my hand and arm back and could walk again. This was several years before the PC. So my advice on this one is giterdone. It gave me back the ability to golf and ride! Oh it was a c5/c6 fusion they had to remove the disc etc was in surgery for about 7 hrs Doc said it wasn't to easy had a great surgeon for this. have some lingering burning in my feet but its so minor compared to the pain I was in! good luck.
  • shipjim
    shipjim Member Posts: 137 Member
    End of Life?
    Hell's Bells, we all have this stuff, backs, knees, hips and of course PC. All can be treated some easier than some. I have DJD in my low back no disc at L5-S1 now the one above is going. I don't want fusion, I do get facet joint nerve treatments (kills the nerves for 6-8 months. All those nerves do is say I hurt, I already know that!) I had the robot, If your cancer hasn't spread beyond the prostate, it's quick relatively painless and of course could have side effects.
    You're young, quality of life to me is when I can't see, walk, talk or take care of my self not some incoveniences I have grandkids to play with and place to go I want to see.
    Retirement may not be a good option if you have nothing else to focus on but your health. Hopefully you have a hobby, my son just died in a car wreck, it's really final and death is a life sentence for the survivors especially self inflicted.

    Find a professional to talk to, good luck
  • ralph.townsend1
    ralph.townsend1 Member Posts: 359 Member
    shipjim said:

    End of Life?
    Hell's Bells, we all have this stuff, backs, knees, hips and of course PC. All can be treated some easier than some. I have DJD in my low back no disc at L5-S1 now the one above is going. I don't want fusion, I do get facet joint nerve treatments (kills the nerves for 6-8 months. All those nerves do is say I hurt, I already know that!) I had the robot, If your cancer hasn't spread beyond the prostate, it's quick relatively painless and of course could have side effects.
    You're young, quality of life to me is when I can't see, walk, talk or take care of my self not some incoveniences I have grandkids to play with and place to go I want to see.
    Retirement may not be a good option if you have nothing else to focus on but your health. Hopefully you have a hobby, my son just died in a car wreck, it's really final and death is a life sentence for the survivors especially self inflicted.

    Find a professional to talk to, good luck

    Death
    Shipjim

    I can relate on everything you said about life sentence and death which is the final answer. We should never fear death for the pain is gone and our friend's move on. :-)

    My heart is sadden for your loss of your son, I hope there is some joy in remembering him!
    My prayer's are with you!

    God bless
  • cchqnetman
    cchqnetman Member Posts: 119

    Death
    Shipjim

    I can relate on everything you said about life sentence and death which is the final answer. We should never fear death for the pain is gone and our friend's move on. :-)

    My heart is sadden for your loss of your son, I hope there is some joy in remembering him!
    My prayer's are with you!

    God bless

    Interesting
    Ralph,
    I was intrigued by your comment "never fear death for the pain is gone and our friend's move on. :-)". I think everyone who has ever contemplated suicide has thought about the people left behnd and their pain and hurt. But their hurt and pain subsides over time. The person who is contemplating suicide's pain may never go away. I think there is dilema - do you stay alive and ease their pain or do you check out of the net and ease your own pain. Some people say suicide is selfish because it hurts other. Is not asking someone someone who is contemplating suicide to not do it simply to ease someone else's pain also selfish?

    Just saying there are always more that one way to view a situation.

    Cheers.


    David
  • Samsungtech1
    Samsungtech1 Member Posts: 351

    Interesting
    Ralph,
    I was intrigued by your comment "never fear death for the pain is gone and our friend's move on. :-)". I think everyone who has ever contemplated suicide has thought about the people left behnd and their pain and hurt. But their hurt and pain subsides over time. The person who is contemplating suicide's pain may never go away. I think there is dilema - do you stay alive and ease their pain or do you check out of the net and ease your own pain. Some people say suicide is selfish because it hurts other. Is not asking someone someone who is contemplating suicide to not do it simply to ease someone else's pain also selfish?

    Just saying there are always more that one way to view a situation.

    Cheers.


    David

    Extending life
    I have stage 4 metastic cancer, spread to lung and bladder at the very beginning. From my early years in heavy construction I have been diagnosed with DJD in every joint in my body. I guess when they operated on lower back, and inserted gel on two joints in 82 I have constant pain in lower back and my siatica on left side hurts everyday. I also have melanoma and am going in for further surgery on another positive mole. I have other issues, and just to add another one my wife just had a masectomy about ten days ago. We are separated.

    I got through Viet Nam and threw my watch away, when I left, and figure everyday is a gift. When it gets to the point that my quality of life is dependent on others I will make a decision regarding end of life issues, but until I reach that stage I will not quit fighting. Everyday you have you should be thankful. I had plenty of friends that would gladly trade with you except they are dead. Once you are dead all other stuff does not apply. Everyone has issues. Ending them is one way, but you have to think of the others in your life. I do not believe in God, quit in Viet Nam. I do believe in the spiritualness of life. Karma is there.

    Don't ever give up. That is the easy way.

    Mike
  • ralph.townsend1
    ralph.townsend1 Member Posts: 359 Member

    Interesting
    Ralph,
    I was intrigued by your comment "never fear death for the pain is gone and our friend's move on. :-)". I think everyone who has ever contemplated suicide has thought about the people left behnd and their pain and hurt. But their hurt and pain subsides over time. The person who is contemplating suicide's pain may never go away. I think there is dilema - do you stay alive and ease their pain or do you check out of the net and ease your own pain. Some people say suicide is selfish because it hurts other. Is not asking someone someone who is contemplating suicide to not do it simply to ease someone else's pain also selfish?

    Just saying there are always more that one way to view a situation.

    Cheers.


    David

    Good point
    But not so fast, Suicide is cheating death in it's on right. I want my family, friend's and in specially my case, God to know I was not fearful to face pain and death. In my case of a person who has contemplating suicide, which I over came with the love life of my God family, and friends.

    I want my family to say he was a vietnam veteran and a Veteran in life. So that shadow box of war metal's and picture's of my time serve will be on the wall at grand kids House and not in a box in the attic of that terrible war.

    Your so right its easy to walk away and family, friends and who cares about God or if there is a God.

    There are always more that one way to look at a situation

    I choose to face death at its time, for its right.
  • Samsungtech1
    Samsungtech1 Member Posts: 351

    Good point
    But not so fast, Suicide is cheating death in it's on right. I want my family, friend's and in specially my case, God to know I was not fearful to face pain and death. In my case of a person who has contemplating suicide, which I over came with the love life of my God family, and friends.

    I want my family to say he was a vietnam veteran and a Veteran in life. So that shadow box of war metal's and picture's of my time serve will be on the wall at grand kids House and not in a box in the attic of that terrible war.

    Your so right its easy to walk away and family, friends and who cares about God or if there is a God.

    There are always more that one way to look at a situation

    I choose to face death at its time, for its right.

    Suicide
    Ralph,
    Have contemplated it as well. Took my gun and loaded it and wasbready to do it but my daughterbstopped by. She told me I was a coward. I did not argue with her, but I feel that gun is my out when it comes. Stuff was bad, but it seems that all this cancer can not take over my lif. Have to go in for another melanoma surgery. Funny, but death almost seems like the end of a very bad memory. Does notmscare me. A watched it and decided , So what, want to do it, then do it. Everything else is just BS. I had enough stuff going on that it looked like time for me, but that was before I learned that doc's and nurses do not know what is going on, including a remission that I am now in, so grandkids get another year of presents. Go figure.

    Mike
  • Swingshiftworker
    Swingshiftworker Member Posts: 1,017 Member

    Suicide
    Ralph,
    Have contemplated it as well. Took my gun and loaded it and wasbready to do it but my daughterbstopped by. She told me I was a coward. I did not argue with her, but I feel that gun is my out when it comes. Stuff was bad, but it seems that all this cancer can not take over my lif. Have to go in for another melanoma surgery. Funny, but death almost seems like the end of a very bad memory. Does notmscare me. A watched it and decided , So what, want to do it, then do it. Everything else is just BS. I had enough stuff going on that it looked like time for me, but that was before I learned that doc's and nurses do not know what is going on, including a remission that I am now in, so grandkids get another year of presents. Go figure.

    Mike

    No Guns For Me!
    Well, I don't think I'm going to die from PCa BUT I've already decided that, if it comes down to it, I'm going to seek out legal euthanasia where ever it is most convenient to arrange it.

    I've watched older people in my family gradually die while ill and bed ridden. It's not pretty. My mother -- who will be 99 years old this coming Jan 5th -- is in the same situation. Frankly, I don't think human beings are meant to live that long and when they live beyond the point that they can care for themselves and truly "enjoy" life (not just exist), it really calls into question the premise that "life" MUST be preserved over all else.

    If I become chronically ill and pain or bedridden and become nothing more than a burden and hunk of meat that has to be fed and cleaned like a baby, I will definitely want OUT!!

    That said, I wouldn't use a gun. Guns are VERY messy. I'm a retired law enforcement officer. I own lots of guns AND I've seen the effects of them. If you commit suicide w/a gun, you won't have to see or clean up the mess but it won't be pretty. I don't want to go out that way either.

    I'd prefer a peaceful sleep in a calm and loving environment in the company of the few people who care about me and who will take proper care of my remains. So, if I don't go "naturally," that's the way I'd "prefer" to go.
  • Samsungtech1
    Samsungtech1 Member Posts: 351

    No Guns For Me!
    Well, I don't think I'm going to die from PCa BUT I've already decided that, if it comes down to it, I'm going to seek out legal euthanasia where ever it is most convenient to arrange it.

    I've watched older people in my family gradually die while ill and bed ridden. It's not pretty. My mother -- who will be 99 years old this coming Jan 5th -- is in the same situation. Frankly, I don't think human beings are meant to live that long and when they live beyond the point that they can care for themselves and truly "enjoy" life (not just exist), it really calls into question the premise that "life" MUST be preserved over all else.

    If I become chronically ill and pain or bedridden and become nothing more than a burden and hunk of meat that has to be fed and cleaned like a baby, I will definitely want OUT!!

    That said, I wouldn't use a gun. Guns are VERY messy. I'm a retired law enforcement officer. I own lots of guns AND I've seen the effects of them. If you commit suicide w/a gun, you won't have to see or clean up the mess but it won't be pretty. I don't want to go out that way either.

    I'd prefer a peaceful sleep in a calm and loving environment in the company of the few people who care about me and who will take proper care of my remains. So, if I don't go "naturally," that's the way I'd "prefer" to go.

    End of life
    I apologize. I thought I was sending that to Ralph. Seems like it went up without my knowing. Death is a personal thing. Everyone hastheir ideas, and we keep them in the back of our mind. I hope that if it gets too bad that I will have the mind set to end it. Guns, drugs, etc. are all means. Unfortunately. Drugs do notmalways work. Can you imagine anything worse than doing drugs and waking up. Anyhow it is all a matter of what you want. Good luck to everyone. I qm now in remission, with HT shots. Never know where life will take you. Guns are messy, but pills are a question mark. To each his own. Hopefully they will come up with a cure. Wierd how it works.

    Mike
  • cchqnetman
    cchqnetman Member Posts: 119

    No Guns For Me!
    Well, I don't think I'm going to die from PCa BUT I've already decided that, if it comes down to it, I'm going to seek out legal euthanasia where ever it is most convenient to arrange it.

    I've watched older people in my family gradually die while ill and bed ridden. It's not pretty. My mother -- who will be 99 years old this coming Jan 5th -- is in the same situation. Frankly, I don't think human beings are meant to live that long and when they live beyond the point that they can care for themselves and truly "enjoy" life (not just exist), it really calls into question the premise that "life" MUST be preserved over all else.

    If I become chronically ill and pain or bedridden and become nothing more than a burden and hunk of meat that has to be fed and cleaned like a baby, I will definitely want OUT!!

    That said, I wouldn't use a gun. Guns are VERY messy. I'm a retired law enforcement officer. I own lots of guns AND I've seen the effects of them. If you commit suicide w/a gun, you won't have to see or clean up the mess but it won't be pretty. I don't want to go out that way either.

    I'd prefer a peaceful sleep in a calm and loving environment in the company of the few people who care about me and who will take proper care of my remains. So, if I don't go "naturally," that's the way I'd "prefer" to go.

    Not Necessarily Messy
    When I was first diagnosed with PCa I wanted to put off being treated for as long as I could and knew I was taking a risk. I have already gained 12 years of not being incontinent or impotent so I figure I won a partial victory. I made up my mind if the PCa did catch up with me I was not going to die a long drawn out death. I have seen several of my friends and relatives die and if I can do anything to keep from going that way I will. I may have to check out of the net a bit early but I will go on my terms. Having said that, guns don't have to be messy. A quiet place on a beach at low tide and by high tide no more mess. Guns have the highest success rate.
  • Swingshiftworker
    Swingshiftworker Member Posts: 1,017 Member

    Not Necessarily Messy
    When I was first diagnosed with PCa I wanted to put off being treated for as long as I could and knew I was taking a risk. I have already gained 12 years of not being incontinent or impotent so I figure I won a partial victory. I made up my mind if the PCa did catch up with me I was not going to die a long drawn out death. I have seen several of my friends and relatives die and if I can do anything to keep from going that way I will. I may have to check out of the net a bit early but I will go on my terms. Having said that, guns don't have to be messy. A quiet place on a beach at low tide and by high tide no more mess. Guns have the highest success rate.

    Not Messy?
    Guess you've never seen the results of a suicide by gun.

    I have and they are almost always very messy. Some messier than others. You can increase the possibility of a "neat" crime scene by using a 22LR bullet but that also increases the risk of a failed attempt.

    Frankly, if you need to "check out", the BEST method is currently to sign up with an established euthanasia organization in Europe (I posted the links to them above) who will arrange for the administration of a cocktail of totally drugs under the direction of a doctor that are guaranteed to cause you to fall asleep painlessly w/o any possibility of waking back up.

    That'll be my choice if it ever comes down to that.