ASTRO: Brain Metastases Common in Ovarian Cancer

245

Comments

  • evertheoptimist
    evertheoptimist Member Posts: 140
    RoseyR said:

    Chemo-Resistance
    Thanks for your information.

    In Natural Strategies for Cancer Patients, Dr. Russell Blaylock likewise warns that if a first series of chemotherapy treatments doesn't "knock out" the cancer cells (as opposed to merely a tumor), the cells that survive gain strength and become doubly aggressive, making it ever harder for subsequent chemo to gain a lasting remission.

    He laments the lack of studies that show what happens when a really healthy diet is the ONLY follow-up treatment, following debulking surgery, rather than chemo or radiation. As his specialty is neurosurgery, he is especially good on what substances tend to promote brain metastasis, by the way. Even glutamate--helpful in some circumstances--he warns may exacerbate the presence of any developing brain tumor. On the subject of taxol per se, he is duly cautionary, while advising several supplements that he believes mitigate many of its horrific effects; indeed, he advises his own patients NOT to proceed with chemo "on schedule," but to take a few weeks first to fortify their systems with vitamins and supplements that, his research shows, can protect the body against taxol's assaults.

    I am especially interested in the "inflammatory markers" that you noted to be significant during the course of chemo in intimating likelihood of recurrence. The blood tests my "top cancer cancer" routinely ordered measured very little (least of all my vitamin B12, or D, or zinc levels, all important to health status!) and not even my fibrogen levels. The only inflammatory marker I was aware of was CRP--and because Dr. Keith Block considers this an impportant marker, I kept an eye on it during chemo; it was always less than .01--which is where Block wanted to see it.

    On the other hand, I believe CRP is more descriptive of propensity for heart conditions than general inflammation--and with a major checkup due in two weeks, wonder what other "markers" I should ask my "major treatment center" to check.

    Final postscript: Even my FERRITIN levels were never checked for nine months!!! But because my hemoglobin was very low, I was blithely told my the chemo nurse to "have a juicy burger or steak" and even "to start taking slow-release IRON.

    Only a test my by INTERNIST, demanded by me, revealed that though hemoglobin was low, it was NOT because of low iron; in fact, my iron was way too HIGH, never a good marker for cancer patients. (It's probably high because I had two blood transfusions but they were too careless to check my ferritin levels afterwards.) Had I followed the nurse's advice, I'd be in even worse shape. The only way to get the iron levels down, from what I've read, are to donate blood once a week for a few months or to chelate it out ... and avoid iron-rich foods.

    So thank you for your posts, whether they bring good or bad news--and please let us know what marker of inflammation we should be tested for.

    Appreciatively,
    Rosey R

    IP inositol binds with iron
    IP inositol binds with iron and gets rid of it. you can google it and buy on line.

    Meanwhile, regarding the power of nutrition. I am all for it. I am practicing it. If not anything else, it keeps my body healthy and that's very important if I am to deal with my condition as a chronic health issue - very likely due to the fact that my condition is deemed not curable - but hopefully manageable.

    That said, I am skeptical that the nnutritional change alone can keep the cancer at bay. I ate inhumanly healthy through the initial treatment this year and during my very short lived remission (3-4 months). I consumed close to 20 servings of vegetables. Need I say more? Trust me only a masochist could have eaten the way I did, and I have a very high threshold for food not tasting good, and discipline for doing every thing right. Thought it's a case of only one subject (me), my experience made it very clear to me that as far as "I" am concerned, healthy nutrition is NOT going to be enough to keep cancer at bay.

    I do intend to maintain very healthy eating habit still since there are tons of general benefit for good health.

    PS. I took all sorts of supplements (like curcumin, etc. all the good stuff everybody talks about).
  • soromer
    soromer Member Posts: 130
    gdpawel said:

    Taxol, the not so good news
    The relationship of cancer and inflammation is very interesting. Inflammation is present before and during the life of a cancer. In cancer, inflammation is a pathological process characterized by injury or destruction of tissues caused by a variety of cellular (cancer) and chemical (chemotherapy) reactions. It is usually manifested by typical signs of pain, heat, redness, swelling, and loss of function. Inflammation can be caused by bacterial, viral, or carcinomic means.

    Taxol has a cancer-promoting risk. It increases fivefold the production of Interleukin - 8 (IL-8), a cellular communication molecule that initiates the growth of new blood vessels to feed a growing cancer. IL-8 is under the control of an inflammatory regulating protein called nuclear factor-kappa Beta (NF-kB). When NF-kB is enhanced, it increases the production of IL-8, and thus Taxol fails to stop the growth of new blood vessels that feed a growing cancer, failing to prevent recurrence.

    Taxol is but one of a group of drugs that has this unwanted side-effect of activating NF-kB. Other drugs in this group include Doxorubicin, 5-Fluorouracil, Cisplatin, VP-16 (Etoposide), ARA-C, and Methotrexate. Patients with high inflammatory markers during chemotherapy are at higher risk for recurrence, and thus need to more closely monitor and modulate their NF-kB expression after the chemotherapy ends.

    The ASTRO study has pointed out the increase incidence of ovarian brain metastases, not the underlying causes. While cell function analysis has observed an increase in the number of metabolic activity of mitochondria of the surviving cells from taxane therapy, even in cases where the majority of the cells are being killed by taxanes, Taxol actually causes cancer cell microtentacles (or extensions of the plasma membrane of cancer cells) to grow longer and allows tumor cells to reattach faster, appearing to paly a key role in how cancers spread to distant locations in the body.

    In stem cell research, anti-cancer treatments often effectively shrink the size of tumors, but some might have the opposite effect, actually expanding the small population of cancer stem cells that then are capable of metastasizing.

    These circulating cells would explain the lack of overall survival advantage for partially successful treatment. If anything, I would guess that the surviving cells would be more disregulated and therefore tougher and more aggressive, and perhaps, since they no longer have to compete with the less aggressive and easier to kill cells for nutrients or “lebensraum,” all of the now even more rapidly expanding clone of tough-guy cells would be more likely to invade, metastasize, and generally wreak havoc.

    This might also explain the higher rates of metabolism among the remaining cells, along with the fact that these cells might be working feverishly to repair damage done by the chemotherapy drugs – especially taxanes, in which the putative mechanism is to lock in place the mitotic spindle and thereby prevent cell division.

    It's hard for me not to feel betrayed (and stupid)
    Thanks, Greg, for posting this information. But it is painful for me to read this information, at this stage of my treatment/recovery. At the risk of being censored, my first response is WTF?!?!

    I was considering myself fortunate earlier that I did not have Taxol as my first-line therapy. Instead, I had doxorubicin and cisplatin. The combo did not work for me at all; I experienced no remission whatsoever. I now have 5 lung nodules instead of one (immediate post-surgery). My oncologist calls this "persistent" Stage III adenocarcinoma. Even if it's not Stage IV, it still could kill me.

    And now I read this in your comment:
    "Taxol is but one of a group of drugs that has this unwanted side-effect of activating NF-kB. Other drugs in this group include Doxorubicin, 5-Fluorouracil, Cisplatin, VP-16 (Etoposide), ARA-C, and Methotrexate. Patients with high inflammatory markers during chemotherapy are at higher risk for recurrence, and thus need to more closely monitor and modulate their NF-kB expression after the chemotherapy ends."

    NO ONE has said BOO to me about this possibility, nor about any need to monitor my NF-kB expression. Damn. Damn it all.

    I have been trying my damndest all along to catch up, to bring myself up to speed about what I need to do to save my life--and now it seems that the very drugs I was relying upon were not only useless but harmful!?!?!

    I am working so hard now to improve my diet. To detoxify. To boost my immune function. I exercise; I meditate; I do yoga, T'ai Chi and Qi Gong; I spend time outside every day. I keep thinking there must be an approachable limit to remedies that I can take and interventions that I can implement. But no.

    Sorry to rant. But I am very, very angry. And again, I feel helpless, at a loss for whom or what to trust.
  • soromer
    soromer Member Posts: 130
    RoseyR said:

    Chemo-Resistance
    Thanks for your information.

    In Natural Strategies for Cancer Patients, Dr. Russell Blaylock likewise warns that if a first series of chemotherapy treatments doesn't "knock out" the cancer cells (as opposed to merely a tumor), the cells that survive gain strength and become doubly aggressive, making it ever harder for subsequent chemo to gain a lasting remission.

    He laments the lack of studies that show what happens when a really healthy diet is the ONLY follow-up treatment, following debulking surgery, rather than chemo or radiation. As his specialty is neurosurgery, he is especially good on what substances tend to promote brain metastasis, by the way. Even glutamate--helpful in some circumstances--he warns may exacerbate the presence of any developing brain tumor. On the subject of taxol per se, he is duly cautionary, while advising several supplements that he believes mitigate many of its horrific effects; indeed, he advises his own patients NOT to proceed with chemo "on schedule," but to take a few weeks first to fortify their systems with vitamins and supplements that, his research shows, can protect the body against taxol's assaults.

    I am especially interested in the "inflammatory markers" that you noted to be significant during the course of chemo in intimating likelihood of recurrence. The blood tests my "top cancer cancer" routinely ordered measured very little (least of all my vitamin B12, or D, or zinc levels, all important to health status!) and not even my fibrogen levels. The only inflammatory marker I was aware of was CRP--and because Dr. Keith Block considers this an impportant marker, I kept an eye on it during chemo; it was always less than .01--which is where Block wanted to see it.

    On the other hand, I believe CRP is more descriptive of propensity for heart conditions than general inflammation--and with a major checkup due in two weeks, wonder what other "markers" I should ask my "major treatment center" to check.

    Final postscript: Even my FERRITIN levels were never checked for nine months!!! But because my hemoglobin was very low, I was blithely told my the chemo nurse to "have a juicy burger or steak" and even "to start taking slow-release IRON.

    Only a test my by INTERNIST, demanded by me, revealed that though hemoglobin was low, it was NOT because of low iron; in fact, my iron was way too HIGH, never a good marker for cancer patients. (It's probably high because I had two blood transfusions but they were too careless to check my ferritin levels afterwards.) Had I followed the nurse's advice, I'd be in even worse shape. The only way to get the iron levels down, from what I've read, are to donate blood once a week for a few months or to chelate it out ... and avoid iron-rich foods.

    So thank you for your posts, whether they bring good or bad news--and please let us know what marker of inflammation we should be tested for.

    Appreciatively,
    Rosey R

    Is Blaylock your primary resource?
    Where else are you getting your information?

    I feel desperately, criminally ignorant all of a sudden. I'm not trying to shoot the messenger, believe me, merely trying to express my dismay at being so far behind the curve.

    Thanks, RoseyR, for whatever else you want to share.
  • norma2
    norma2 Member Posts: 479

    Norma
    What you said is very true. You obviously made the correct decision for you. And I am very happy about that because I do really like you.



    Also, on another note.

    New information is never a criticism of what a person has or hasn't done. As I said before, I never consider that if someone is talking about chemo or radiation's benefits that they are saying I am a failure because i didn't do either. They are just talking about something that is of interest to them, and usually I'll read it, because I will most likely learn something.

    About the posts/threads, one could consider it like a science newspaper and a person can choose to read those articles that are of interest to them and ignore those that they already are familiar with or no longer need to learn more about. But for the uninitiated and those new to all this, it's good to have as many things as possible to consider and talk over with their doctor. The more questions we ask our doctors, the more they become aware that we know more than they might think we do, and this might make them keep up on the latest changes in treatments more vigilantly.

    I consider myself someone who reports the news. I don't make it, but if it seems relevant, I'll report on it. Take it leave it, I don't care. But at least I feel I've done my job by putting it out there. Fair enough? A reporter does not report because they think the person reading it is stupid, actually, it's just the opposite. I figure they are smart and will be happy to have new information to consider.

    Hope this discussion gives someone a benefit they might not have had before they read this thread.

    Not everyone will benefit.

    But some might, and that is the entire point--in its entirety(sp?)

    thanks Claudia
    I have never thanked you but, I think taking my turmeric daily really has helped. I would have never known about it if wasn't for you. At least I like to think so. I read all the posts and seldom comment. I have learned a lot by joining this group.
  • JoAnnDK
    JoAnnDK Member Posts: 275
    soromer said:

    It's hard for me not to feel betrayed (and stupid)
    Thanks, Greg, for posting this information. But it is painful for me to read this information, at this stage of my treatment/recovery. At the risk of being censored, my first response is WTF?!?!

    I was considering myself fortunate earlier that I did not have Taxol as my first-line therapy. Instead, I had doxorubicin and cisplatin. The combo did not work for me at all; I experienced no remission whatsoever. I now have 5 lung nodules instead of one (immediate post-surgery). My oncologist calls this "persistent" Stage III adenocarcinoma. Even if it's not Stage IV, it still could kill me.

    And now I read this in your comment:
    "Taxol is but one of a group of drugs that has this unwanted side-effect of activating NF-kB. Other drugs in this group include Doxorubicin, 5-Fluorouracil, Cisplatin, VP-16 (Etoposide), ARA-C, and Methotrexate. Patients with high inflammatory markers during chemotherapy are at higher risk for recurrence, and thus need to more closely monitor and modulate their NF-kB expression after the chemotherapy ends."

    NO ONE has said BOO to me about this possibility, nor about any need to monitor my NF-kB expression. Damn. Damn it all.

    I have been trying my damndest all along to catch up, to bring myself up to speed about what I need to do to save my life--and now it seems that the very drugs I was relying upon were not only useless but harmful!?!?!

    I am working so hard now to improve my diet. To detoxify. To boost my immune function. I exercise; I meditate; I do yoga, T'ai Chi and Qi Gong; I spend time outside every day. I keep thinking there must be an approachable limit to remedies that I can take and interventions that I can implement. But no.

    Sorry to rant. But I am very, very angry. And again, I feel helpless, at a loss for whom or what to trust.

    article
    I did a little research of my own and found that this paragraph

    "Taxol is but one of a group of drugs that has this unwanted side-effect of activating NF-kB. Other drugs in this group include Doxorubicin, 5-Fluorouracil, Cisplatin, VP-16 (Etoposide), ARA-C, and Methotrexate. Patients with high inflammatory markers during chemotherapy are at higher risk for recurrence, and thus need to more closely monitor and modulate their NF-kB expression after the chemotherapy ends."

    is cited over and over and over again, authored by one doctor, James Arond-Thomas, who is or was apparently the "#1 cancer coach". Many of the links included with this article are dead and lead nowhere. I googled this doctor and found that he has a practice in Nebraska. So he is an MD but apparently the theory postulated above is his alone.

    So Soromer, I do not think you or anyone else should be doubting herself over the decisions we have made. As I said before, we have ALL done the best we could do, under the most difficult of circumstances, and certainly do not need to be repeatedly told that we made wrong decisions. This causes unneeded stress which, as we all know, is bad for us.
  • Gracegoi
    Gracegoi Member Posts: 59
    soromer said:

    It's hard for me not to feel betrayed (and stupid)
    Thanks, Greg, for posting this information. But it is painful for me to read this information, at this stage of my treatment/recovery. At the risk of being censored, my first response is WTF?!?!

    I was considering myself fortunate earlier that I did not have Taxol as my first-line therapy. Instead, I had doxorubicin and cisplatin. The combo did not work for me at all; I experienced no remission whatsoever. I now have 5 lung nodules instead of one (immediate post-surgery). My oncologist calls this "persistent" Stage III adenocarcinoma. Even if it's not Stage IV, it still could kill me.

    And now I read this in your comment:
    "Taxol is but one of a group of drugs that has this unwanted side-effect of activating NF-kB. Other drugs in this group include Doxorubicin, 5-Fluorouracil, Cisplatin, VP-16 (Etoposide), ARA-C, and Methotrexate. Patients with high inflammatory markers during chemotherapy are at higher risk for recurrence, and thus need to more closely monitor and modulate their NF-kB expression after the chemotherapy ends."

    NO ONE has said BOO to me about this possibility, nor about any need to monitor my NF-kB expression. Damn. Damn it all.

    I have been trying my damndest all along to catch up, to bring myself up to speed about what I need to do to save my life--and now it seems that the very drugs I was relying upon were not only useless but harmful!?!?!

    I am working so hard now to improve my diet. To detoxify. To boost my immune function. I exercise; I meditate; I do yoga, T'ai Chi and Qi Gong; I spend time outside every day. I keep thinking there must be an approachable limit to remedies that I can take and interventions that I can implement. But no.

    Sorry to rant. But I am very, very angry. And again, I feel helpless, at a loss for whom or what to trust.

    Hi Kate and for GD

    Its okay to rant.
    Any questions I had about what I was learning on this site I took to my Oncologist. I would feel the same way if I were in your situation. I felt the same way after I found out what my diagnosis was. What do you think about making an appointment and asking one more time if there is anything else for you to try along with questions from this site. Good for you to seek out what the doctors cannot recommend and make changes to try to help yourself.

    You are doing more than I right now . I have gotten complacent.

    Cancer and its treatment is not a one size fits all. That's for certain.

    Cyber hug for you.


    GD, I have seen you post here ever so often. I was always touched that a man would post research on our site.


    Thank you for caring.
    Grace
  • california_artist
    california_artist Member Posts: 816 Member
    soromer said:

    It's hard for me not to feel betrayed (and stupid)
    Thanks, Greg, for posting this information. But it is painful for me to read this information, at this stage of my treatment/recovery. At the risk of being censored, my first response is WTF?!?!

    I was considering myself fortunate earlier that I did not have Taxol as my first-line therapy. Instead, I had doxorubicin and cisplatin. The combo did not work for me at all; I experienced no remission whatsoever. I now have 5 lung nodules instead of one (immediate post-surgery). My oncologist calls this "persistent" Stage III adenocarcinoma. Even if it's not Stage IV, it still could kill me.

    And now I read this in your comment:
    "Taxol is but one of a group of drugs that has this unwanted side-effect of activating NF-kB. Other drugs in this group include Doxorubicin, 5-Fluorouracil, Cisplatin, VP-16 (Etoposide), ARA-C, and Methotrexate. Patients with high inflammatory markers during chemotherapy are at higher risk for recurrence, and thus need to more closely monitor and modulate their NF-kB expression after the chemotherapy ends."

    NO ONE has said BOO to me about this possibility, nor about any need to monitor my NF-kB expression. Damn. Damn it all.

    I have been trying my damndest all along to catch up, to bring myself up to speed about what I need to do to save my life--and now it seems that the very drugs I was relying upon were not only useless but harmful!?!?!

    I am working so hard now to improve my diet. To detoxify. To boost my immune function. I exercise; I meditate; I do yoga, T'ai Chi and Qi Gong; I spend time outside every day. I keep thinking there must be an approachable limit to remedies that I can take and interventions that I can implement. But no.

    Sorry to rant. But I am very, very angry. And again, I feel helpless, at a loss for whom or what to trust.

    soromer, you are at the point that you simply need information.
    Certainly no one would think you are stupid and I don't feel you should feel anything but woefully uninformed due to no fault of your own.

    Which is exactly the point of all this. Yes it is both a blessing and seemingly a curse, but the fact that you have things to think about is at least being informed. One of the things that bothered me the most was that I feel and it might be true of most here, that the totality of informed consent is lacking. There is a basic glossing over the whole truth. Warnings of some things, but certainly not most. That's why when I asked what kind of a success recored my gyno/onc had using the treatments he recommended and he was reply was that he didn't keep records, I was, to say the very least incredulous. What??? No records?? and he was in one of those cancer community hospitals, I can't think of the name off hand. If he didn't know how well it worked, why would he continue to do it without a firm concept of it effectiveness???

    Anyway, I don't really know where you are in your knowledge curve so here are some very basic things one should know about cancer:

    These are some of the tings that cancer just adores you for supplying it:

    sugar/carbs of any kind--i.e. brown rice is a wonderful food but not for a stage four cancer patient.

    Milk helps cancer

    Cancer needs iron, copper

    It prefers an anerobic environment

    a low body temp



    Cancer hates these things:

    potassium

    Anything alkaline-check acid alkaline charts as it's the ash the body makes which counts. Lemon is highly ALKALINE FORMING

    oxygen- so exercise, but not too strenuously as it also likes lactic acid/Practice deep breathing throughout the day.

    heat-check your basic temperature

    It has a problem with the trio of turmeric/pepper/olive oil taken together

    Green tea, brewed for thirty minutes, and then drunk within the hour, a must as the goodness gets lost after that-- and then no sugar or milk, but lemon ups its effectiveness.

    If you want to keep the bad estrogen under control-cabbage cooked for just a minute or two or steamed, changes the bad estrogen into a more innocuous form. Also, it is important to keep everything going out of your body as quickly as possible as if estrogen does not get expelled it is reabsorbed and changed into the bad cancer causing form of estrogen by the liver.

    Anyone else want to fill in what I've left out for the basics.

    Oh, there is a list of antiangeogenetic foods in the dietary thread.

    If you are really a stage four, which my understanding was that one became when the cancer left the abdominal cavity, so lung mets, would be pretty bad. In which case I would, were it me, start growing wheatgrass. There is a ton of info on the net re wheatgrass, which is alkaline as well as a source of chlorophyl which is akin to the red blood cell.

    If you send me an csn email I will give you my email address.

    There are quite a few of us out here doing things in addition to chemo and radiation. Rosey, Maggie, Culka, although she may not feel like being active right now, her posts are great, Tethys, ever I think. You might start a post asking for help with the basics, standard alternative complementary, whatever.

    In your benefit, it seems you have some of the most important traits to getting through this, curiosity and an open mind. Believe if you try hard enough and never give up you will make it, and I believe you will. I would not eat any kind of animal or fish until I had some sign that my cancer was no longer growing.

    This is what it says at the bottom of this page and is why I feel comfortable saying what I have.

    The content on this site is for informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Do not use this information to diagnose or treat a health problem or disease without consulting with a qualified healthcare provider. Please consult your healthcare provider with any questions or concerns you may have regarding your condition. Use of this online service is subject to the disclaimer and the terms and conditions.

    The very, very best of good wishes for you,

    Claudia


    Wait-----Stress, cancer likes stress because when your body and mind are stressed all your immune activity slows and goes to dealing with the stress. In the beginning, when I was first diagnosed, if someone's behavior was stressful to me, I would say that because of the cancer, I absolutely could not tolerate any stress and unfortunatly, they would have to go change the conversation or go home.You have not only the right to, but have an obligation to protect yourself. I'll write you a note if you would like.

    Hugs
  • gdpawel
    gdpawel Member Posts: 523 Member
    Gracegoi said:

    Hi Kate and for GD

    Its okay to rant.
    Any questions I had about what I was learning on this site I took to my Oncologist. I would feel the same way if I were in your situation. I felt the same way after I found out what my diagnosis was. What do you think about making an appointment and asking one more time if there is anything else for you to try along with questions from this site. Good for you to seek out what the doctors cannot recommend and make changes to try to help yourself.

    You are doing more than I right now . I have gotten complacent.

    Cancer and its treatment is not a one size fits all. That's for certain.

    Cyber hug for you.


    GD, I have seen you post here ever so often. I was always touched that a man would post research on our site.


    Thank you for caring.
    Grace

    Periodic Brain MRIs
    A report in the journal International Cancer Research stated that taxane drugs target part of the cell cytoskeleton called the tubulin. Tubulin is used to build microtubules, which in turn make up the cell's structure. Destroying it kills the cell, but cancer cells eventually evolve mechanisms to pump out the drugs that do this (resistance). Resistance to anti-tubulin therapies, like Taxol, is a huge problem in many cancers. Like I stated above (and the CSN website software program stated it 23 times), should ovarian cancer patients be receiving periodic brain MRIs?
  • california_artist
    california_artist Member Posts: 816 Member
    norma2 said:

    thanks Claudia
    I have never thanked you but, I think taking my turmeric daily really has helped. I would have never known about it if wasn't for you. At least I like to think so. I read all the posts and seldom comment. I have learned a lot by joining this group.

    Norma
    You are very welcome. That means a lot to me.

    I had a question for you re The Emperor of All Maladies, it's a very, very long, though equally well written book, are there some parts in particular I should pay close attention to or will I just get old reading it??? I have learned a slew of things already, I'm just saying.

    Love and Kisses,

    Claudia
  • soromer
    soromer Member Posts: 130

    soromer, you are at the point that you simply need information.
    Certainly no one would think you are stupid and I don't feel you should feel anything but woefully uninformed due to no fault of your own.

    Which is exactly the point of all this. Yes it is both a blessing and seemingly a curse, but the fact that you have things to think about is at least being informed. One of the things that bothered me the most was that I feel and it might be true of most here, that the totality of informed consent is lacking. There is a basic glossing over the whole truth. Warnings of some things, but certainly not most. That's why when I asked what kind of a success recored my gyno/onc had using the treatments he recommended and he was reply was that he didn't keep records, I was, to say the very least incredulous. What??? No records?? and he was in one of those cancer community hospitals, I can't think of the name off hand. If he didn't know how well it worked, why would he continue to do it without a firm concept of it effectiveness???

    Anyway, I don't really know where you are in your knowledge curve so here are some very basic things one should know about cancer:

    These are some of the tings that cancer just adores you for supplying it:

    sugar/carbs of any kind--i.e. brown rice is a wonderful food but not for a stage four cancer patient.

    Milk helps cancer

    Cancer needs iron, copper

    It prefers an anerobic environment

    a low body temp



    Cancer hates these things:

    potassium

    Anything alkaline-check acid alkaline charts as it's the ash the body makes which counts. Lemon is highly ALKALINE FORMING

    oxygen- so exercise, but not too strenuously as it also likes lactic acid/Practice deep breathing throughout the day.

    heat-check your basic temperature

    It has a problem with the trio of turmeric/pepper/olive oil taken together

    Green tea, brewed for thirty minutes, and then drunk within the hour, a must as the goodness gets lost after that-- and then no sugar or milk, but lemon ups its effectiveness.

    If you want to keep the bad estrogen under control-cabbage cooked for just a minute or two or steamed, changes the bad estrogen into a more innocuous form. Also, it is important to keep everything going out of your body as quickly as possible as if estrogen does not get expelled it is reabsorbed and changed into the bad cancer causing form of estrogen by the liver.

    Anyone else want to fill in what I've left out for the basics.

    Oh, there is a list of antiangeogenetic foods in the dietary thread.

    If you are really a stage four, which my understanding was that one became when the cancer left the abdominal cavity, so lung mets, would be pretty bad. In which case I would, were it me, start growing wheatgrass. There is a ton of info on the net re wheatgrass, which is alkaline as well as a source of chlorophyl which is akin to the red blood cell.

    If you send me an csn email I will give you my email address.

    There are quite a few of us out here doing things in addition to chemo and radiation. Rosey, Maggie, Culka, although she may not feel like being active right now, her posts are great, Tethys, ever I think. You might start a post asking for help with the basics, standard alternative complementary, whatever.

    In your benefit, it seems you have some of the most important traits to getting through this, curiosity and an open mind. Believe if you try hard enough and never give up you will make it, and I believe you will. I would not eat any kind of animal or fish until I had some sign that my cancer was no longer growing.

    This is what it says at the bottom of this page and is why I feel comfortable saying what I have.

    The content on this site is for informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Do not use this information to diagnose or treat a health problem or disease without consulting with a qualified healthcare provider. Please consult your healthcare provider with any questions or concerns you may have regarding your condition. Use of this online service is subject to the disclaimer and the terms and conditions.

    The very, very best of good wishes for you,

    Claudia


    Wait-----Stress, cancer likes stress because when your body and mind are stressed all your immune activity slows and goes to dealing with the stress. In the beginning, when I was first diagnosed, if someone's behavior was stressful to me, I would say that because of the cancer, I absolutely could not tolerate any stress and unfortunatly, they would have to go change the conversation or go home.You have not only the right to, but have an obligation to protect yourself. I'll write you a note if you would like.

    Hugs

    Thanks, Claudia,
    for the overview.

    All of these basics I pretty much have down, though potassium is new to me, and I am a bit confused, regularly, about how we should avoid sugars on the one hand and consume berries and other anti-oxidant fruit on the other. I've been avoiding soy products and phytoestrogens alike; the jury appears to be out on whether it's good to eat them or not.

    For a while, I was eating a lot of animal protein, though that changed about 4 weeks ago when I went completely vegan. And in a couple of weeks, I'm heading to a retreat center for a 5-day raw food detox program (which includes LOTS of wheatgrass, too).

    I love my Ayurvedic healer, and I am very fond of my acupuncturist, both of whom are very competent and reassuring practitioners. I may still seek a primary care doctor who has a cross-expertise in another paradigm (either anthroposophical or Traditional Chinese), but that decision is still a couple weeks away. I have one appointment/interview set for 11/3, the week before I head into the detox.

    Strictly speaking, I have a "persistent" Stage IIIC2 endometrial cancer since it did not respond to the first-line treatment. I hope that the hormonal therapy--and everything else that I am doing!--will be effective.

    I feel and look radiantly healthy, which is no small thing. A year ago, I was miserable--exhausted, bleeding, and anxious. None of those is true now.

    I'll send you a PM.
  • soromer
    soromer Member Posts: 130
    JoAnnDK said:

    article
    I did a little research of my own and found that this paragraph

    "Taxol is but one of a group of drugs that has this unwanted side-effect of activating NF-kB. Other drugs in this group include Doxorubicin, 5-Fluorouracil, Cisplatin, VP-16 (Etoposide), ARA-C, and Methotrexate. Patients with high inflammatory markers during chemotherapy are at higher risk for recurrence, and thus need to more closely monitor and modulate their NF-kB expression after the chemotherapy ends."

    is cited over and over and over again, authored by one doctor, James Arond-Thomas, who is or was apparently the "#1 cancer coach". Many of the links included with this article are dead and lead nowhere. I googled this doctor and found that he has a practice in Nebraska. So he is an MD but apparently the theory postulated above is his alone.

    So Soromer, I do not think you or anyone else should be doubting herself over the decisions we have made. As I said before, we have ALL done the best we could do, under the most difficult of circumstances, and certainly do not need to be repeatedly told that we made wrong decisions. This causes unneeded stress which, as we all know, is bad for us.

    Thanks for checking, JoAnn
    And I think I'll be doing some of my own as well. It's quite possible that there is no other authoritative source than this, or any discussion about this particular topic.

    It is SO HARD to find our way through this maze. I had no idea how frustrating it would be.

    In any case, what continues to exasperate me about the whole situation is the relative lack of communication that I appear to be able to have with my oncologist about it all. I asked, for example, about a different way to infuse the doxorubicin to mitigate the risk of harmful cardiac effects. Her response was basically, "So?"

    That kind of infantilization is stressful to me. I don't know any way to avoid it, other than finding a doctor who doesn't behave that way. Suggestions are welcome.
  • JoAnnDK
    JoAnnDK Member Posts: 275
    gdpawel said:

    Periodic Brain MRIs
    A report in the journal International Cancer Research stated that taxane drugs target part of the cell cytoskeleton called the tubulin. Tubulin is used to build microtubules, which in turn make up the cell's structure. Destroying it kills the cell, but cancer cells eventually evolve mechanisms to pump out the drugs that do this (resistance). Resistance to anti-tubulin therapies, like Taxol, is a huge problem in many cancers. Like I stated above (and the CSN website software program stated it 23 times), should ovarian cancer patients be receiving periodic brain MRIs?

    taxol dosing
    "Anyone have any thoughts on why taxol is not given at a reduced rate with shorter intervals in between?"
    =========================================

    Perhaps they are trying to kill all of us off.

    You have asked this question several times and I thought someone should finally answer you.
  • JoAnnDK
    JoAnnDK Member Posts: 275
    gdpawel said:

    Periodic Brain MRIs
    A report in the journal International Cancer Research stated that taxane drugs target part of the cell cytoskeleton called the tubulin. Tubulin is used to build microtubules, which in turn make up the cell's structure. Destroying it kills the cell, but cancer cells eventually evolve mechanisms to pump out the drugs that do this (resistance). Resistance to anti-tubulin therapies, like Taxol, is a huge problem in many cancers. Like I stated above (and the CSN website software program stated it 23 times), should ovarian cancer patients be receiving periodic brain MRIs?

    Steve Jobs
    Jobs was vegan his entire life, not just after he had cancer. He lived a very healthy lifestyle, according to those who knew him. He also took lots of supplements (most of which he found out about online) and consulted with alternative specialists. He exercised and meditated. Oh, and money was not a problem. Yes, he put off surgery for nine crucial months, but if what we talk about here is helpful, he never should have gotten cancer in the first place.

    Just sayin'
  • norma2
    norma2 Member Posts: 479
    JoAnnDK said:

    Steve Jobs
    Jobs was vegan his entire life, not just after he had cancer. He lived a very healthy lifestyle, according to those who knew him. He also took lots of supplements (most of which he found out about online) and consulted with alternative specialists. He exercised and meditated. Oh, and money was not a problem. Yes, he put off surgery for nine crucial months, but if what we talk about here is helpful, he never should have gotten cancer in the first place.

    Just sayin'

    I caught that too, JOANN
    I caught that too in the news about Steve Jobs, JoAnn. Doesn't make sense does it?
  • norma2
    norma2 Member Posts: 479

    Norma
    You are very welcome. That means a lot to me.

    I had a question for you re The Emperor of All Maladies, it's a very, very long, though equally well written book, are there some parts in particular I should pay close attention to or will I just get old reading it??? I have learned a slew of things already, I'm just saying.

    Love and Kisses,

    Claudia

    Cut to the chase in the book.
    I think the author of THE EMPEROR OF ALL MALADIES is long winded. Could have used some editing. The parts that especially caught my attention where the ones describing the first chemo for leukemia patients. Giving enough chemo to kill all of the cancer cells so the cancer was reduced to zero. That made sense to me. No reseeding of cancer or stray cells that become resistant. At the end the author speculates on the causes of cancer. Also interesting.
    My best to you Claudia. It is 5:45 AM here. Going to take my tumeric and go to work.
  • norma2
    norma2 Member Posts: 479
    gdpawel said:

    What is wrong with CSN website software?
    At times it runs like it's on its last leg, then it pulses out numerous replies. And you can't delete its mistakes. Anybody have a solution to CSN's website software mistakes?

    Patience Greg
    Every time you click on the post comment button it sends a message to post your comment. Takes time for the software to register it. Click once and wait a little while. If you keep clicking it will post that many times.
  • california_artist
    california_artist Member Posts: 816 Member
    Norma
    Enjoy your day, and what are you having turmeric on, this early in the morning?
  • california_artist
    california_artist Member Posts: 816 Member
    Norma
    It posts even when you hit stop. Sorry.
  • california_artist
    california_artist Member Posts: 816 Member
    norma2 said:

    I caught that too, JOANN
    I caught that too in the news about Steve Jobs, JoAnn. Doesn't make sense does it?

    About a vegetrarian diet.
    While eliminating meat from your diet once diagnosed with cancer is a very good idea, that step alone is not the whole story. If your reasons are not wholly because you feel eating animals is not right and you are doing it strictly because of the highly acidic nature of the meat itself, you are on the right track.

    Becoming a vegetarian can be beneficial. However, even in the vegetarian world, there still exist acidic and alkaline foods. Grains, and cheeses are acidic. Sodas, artificial sweeteners, sugars, white flour, processed cereals, coffee, alcohol are highly, highly acidic. So one can be a vegetarian or vegan and still have a diet that supports cancer growth and bone loss. Even black tea is somewhat acidic. Green tea fights cancer, especially when taken only with lemon and steeped for thirty minutes.
    It is the totality of your actions that set the stage for your future health. Even whether or not your life in general causes you stress is relevant. A body under stress puts immune function on hold to fight what it considers a more pressing matter, as the immediate threat of danger trumps all else, survival is the key.

    A person going out to dinner and having a drink, a steak, and dessert, is not doing themselves any favors, except their stress level would be pretty low, so there's that. A person going to a fast food restaurant and having the typical burger, diet soda and fries, that person is living in the worst of all worlds, as the acidic content, not to mention the fat and salt, are not their friends, nor is the atmosphere, unless you like that sort of thing. Their cancer is living it up, and busily dividing like nobody's business.

    Knowing and focusing on those foods that are anti angiogenesis(angiogenesis is the establishment of a new blood supply to a growing turmor, without this new blood supply, your cancer cannot grow large enough to do you any damage) is extremely beneficial. Keeping a tumor from establishing a new blood supply is one of, if not the key goal if the objective is to survive, even with cancer.

    A vegetarian or a person eating very, very little meat, while eating a preponderance of rice, beans, and cheese with a little ice cream and coffee on the side, as I had been when I got cancer, is also not doing themselves any favors. On the other hand if that same person puts the balance of their diet into the vegetable side of the vegetarian diet, with beans, rice and cheese on the side, that would be entirely different and a step in the right direction.

    If I had known then what I know now, I seriously doubt I would find myself in this situation.
  • Kaleena
    Kaleena Member Posts: 2,088 Member
    JoAnnDK said:

    Steve Jobs
    Jobs was vegan his entire life, not just after he had cancer. He lived a very healthy lifestyle, according to those who knew him. He also took lots of supplements (most of which he found out about online) and consulted with alternative specialists. He exercised and meditated. Oh, and money was not a problem. Yes, he put off surgery for nine crucial months, but if what we talk about here is helpful, he never should have gotten cancer in the first place.

    Just sayin'

    JoAnn:
    You are right. I saw

    JoAnn:

    You are right. I saw that about Jobs and was thinking the same thing. I was told that I probably had my cancer from birth. It just took 45 years to develope. What triggered it? I lived by High Power Electric wires for awhile. We always had a garden, but was it the bug spray or stuff put on the plants to protect them. I lived by a Steel Town (actually my parents grew up in Pittsburgh) was it caused by them living in smog at the time?

    We can't predict or pinpoint exactly what caused our cancer unless it is very apparent by some environmental issues or drug issues. We just have to find better ways to treat and cure it or vaccinate against it.