Liver damage

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Comments

  • scouty
    scouty Member Posts: 1,965 Member

    thanks janine
    i am glad i did not take milk thistle around chemo days

    this is why i would have prefered an intergative oncologist, for these specific interactions.

    even my naturopath's did not checkout all my possible onc related meds.
    i told them about folfox and that was it.

    i really need to find a pharmacological oncologist like scouty had. tried but could not find one. i had an excellent tradiitional onc, so i would not have changed anyway.

    never mind, i have made it so far. but i was on ativan. only took about 6 of them over 6 months.

    look up liver health or liver doctor , her name is sandra cabot. her book on liver and bowel is my bible and is a good starting point.

    pete

    Oncological Pharmacist
    My oncologist at the Comprehensive Cancer Center contacted him on my behalf. They are the pharmacists that fill all the chemo orders for the hundreds of people getting it (and other IVs) in the Infusion Center where I go. It is a big Cancer Center and hospital and they have a huge regular pharmacy there too.

    Not sure that will help those that are interested. I never realized how lucky I was that my oncologist was so helpful in regards to the supplements I took while on chemo. I sent him and my brother, the ENT doc, this article yesterday to get his thoughts on the sugar "stuff" to see what they think.

    Janine, I wasn't on any meds when I took the Milk Thistle so I can't help you there. I still take it occasionally especially after the holiday parties!

    Lisa P.
  • scouty
    scouty Member Posts: 1,965 Member
    PGLGreg said:

    fructose again
    Those who don't follow the Colon Club may not have seen a comment from a knowledgeable observer, jscho, to the effect that fructose is probably not a worry for those concerned about developing cancer, but is likely a problem for those who already have it: Re: FRUCTOSE:Role in CR cancer causation & met. spread

    --Greg

    Thanks for the laugh Greg
    I guess you suggesting that we take Jeremy's word over the President of the Cancer Center @ Sloan Kettering and the Director of the Cancer Center @ Harvard Medical School is like me asking folks to believe me instead of their oncologists all these years.

    You do have a great sense of humor!

    If for some reason you were serious I am willing to bet Jeremy didn't read the article and was just reacting to Luslig and his "talks".

    Thanks for the great laugh Greg.

    Lisa P.
  • Sundanceh
    Sundanceh Member Posts: 4,392 Member

    Milk Thistle?
    Hi Lisa,

    I appreciate the info you've provided so clearly here and I will study further on liver health as it is a top priority for me with liver mets and ongoing chemo. I would like to know more about milk thistle and how it may interact with other drugs, especially chemo efficacy:

    http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/milk-thistle-000266.htm
    Milk Thistle


    Milk thistle may interfere with the following medications, because both milk thistle and these medications are broken down by the same liver enzymes:

    * Allergy drugs -- such as fexofenadine (Allegra)
    * Drugs for high cholesterol -- including statins such as lovastatin (Mevacor, Altocor)
    * Anti-anxiety drugs -- including alprazolam (Xanax), diazepam (Valium), and lorazepam (Ativan)
    * Antiplatelet and anticoagulant drugs (blood thinners) -- including clopidogrel (Plavix) and warfarin (Coumadin)
    * Some cancer drugs

    Janine
    I do not know about the interactions...however, when I had cancer in my liver, I took Milk Thistle once daily through chemo, following the surgery.

    My onc said it was ok...the only thing my medical team ever said was ok for me. All my oncologists have not been for any type of cleanes, detoxes, anti-oxidants or any type of supplements while in treatment.

    Once I came here, I find that many here have their oncs ok'ing it and letting the patient do it. I suppose each oncologist is different in their approach.

    But Milk Thistle helps cleanse the liver, so I did use it while on Folfox. This would seem to be ok, but run it through your onc for approval.

    Best!

    -Craig
  • coloCan
    coloCan Member Posts: 1,944 Member
    Sundanceh said:

    Janine
    I do not know about the interactions...however, when I had cancer in my liver, I took Milk Thistle once daily through chemo, following the surgery.

    My onc said it was ok...the only thing my medical team ever said was ok for me. All my oncologists have not been for any type of cleanes, detoxes, anti-oxidants or any type of supplements while in treatment.

    Once I came here, I find that many here have their oncs ok'ing it and letting the patient do it. I suppose each oncologist is different in their approach.

    But Milk Thistle helps cleanse the liver, so I did use it while on Folfox. This would seem to be ok, but run it through your onc for approval.

    Best!

    -Craig

    "Milk Thistle for Chemotherapy-Induced Liver Damage"
    was title of article I had printed 3/30/10 from www.qualityhealth.com (only way I now have to identify source) which stated then:"Currently there is no remedy for treating liver toxicity. However, reseachers have found that the herb Milk thistle may prevent or reduce chemotheraphy-induced liver damage." article then briefly speaks of liver functions and milk thistle studies........
  • coloCan
    coloCan Member Posts: 1,944 Member
    Sundanceh said:

    Janine
    I do not know about the interactions...however, when I had cancer in my liver, I took Milk Thistle once daily through chemo, following the surgery.

    My onc said it was ok...the only thing my medical team ever said was ok for me. All my oncologists have not been for any type of cleanes, detoxes, anti-oxidants or any type of supplements while in treatment.

    Once I came here, I find that many here have their oncs ok'ing it and letting the patient do it. I suppose each oncologist is different in their approach.

    But Milk Thistle helps cleanse the liver, so I did use it while on Folfox. This would seem to be ok, but run it through your onc for approval.

    Best!

    -Craig

    "Hic
    cup"
  • coloCan
    coloCan Member Posts: 1,944 Member
    Sundanceh said:

    Janine
    I do not know about the interactions...however, when I had cancer in my liver, I took Milk Thistle once daily through chemo, following the surgery.

    My onc said it was ok...the only thing my medical team ever said was ok for me. All my oncologists have not been for any type of cleanes, detoxes, anti-oxidants or any type of supplements while in treatment.

    Once I came here, I find that many here have their oncs ok'ing it and letting the patient do it. I suppose each oncologist is different in their approach.

    But Milk Thistle helps cleanse the liver, so I did use it while on Folfox. This would seem to be ok, but run it through your onc for approval.

    Best!

    -Craig

    If you were a bird
    this would be food.......




    slow laptop so repeats
  • SisterSledge
    SisterSledge Member Posts: 332 Member
    Sundanceh said:

    Janine
    I do not know about the interactions...however, when I had cancer in my liver, I took Milk Thistle once daily through chemo, following the surgery.

    My onc said it was ok...the only thing my medical team ever said was ok for me. All my oncologists have not been for any type of cleanes, detoxes, anti-oxidants or any type of supplements while in treatment.

    Once I came here, I find that many here have their oncs ok'ing it and letting the patient do it. I suppose each oncologist is different in their approach.

    But Milk Thistle helps cleanse the liver, so I did use it while on Folfox. This would seem to be ok, but run it through your onc for approval.

    Best!

    -Craig

    great input and info
    Thank you all for sharing info on Milk Thistle and other liver cleansing alternatives...this is a very important issue for anyone taking chemo. It's hard for me to make decisions, in that at this time I only have Dr Doom for an Onc and I don't trust his opinions at all :(

    I guess my basic premise will have to be something like this:
    Chemo intentionally harms/depletes the body to kill the cancer. Helping the body sustain chemo can also help the cancer to sustain the chemo. Therefore, I should only help the body if it seems to be struggling to maintain functions while on chemo. After chemo, I should help the body to heal from the depletion caused by chemo activity.

    Does that make sense to you or am I crazy?
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member

    great input and info
    Thank you all for sharing info on Milk Thistle and other liver cleansing alternatives...this is a very important issue for anyone taking chemo. It's hard for me to make decisions, in that at this time I only have Dr Doom for an Onc and I don't trust his opinions at all :(

    I guess my basic premise will have to be something like this:
    Chemo intentionally harms/depletes the body to kill the cancer. Helping the body sustain chemo can also help the cancer to sustain the chemo. Therefore, I should only help the body if it seems to be struggling to maintain functions while on chemo. After chemo, I should help the body to heal from the depletion caused by chemo activity.

    Does that make sense to you or am I crazy?

    sorry but maybe just a little crazy
    hi janine

    being upside down here i have a different perspective. ie the other side of the planet.

    did the vege juicing beetroot celery etc almost daily depending diarrhea
    all through chemo.

    did milk thistle off chemo days, but again from DX.

    the goal to maintain PEAK liver function, to this end stopped eating all processed foods.
    cut down on red meat, followed bowel and liver bible.

    The goal PEAK liver function all the way through, and I almost made it. bloods were great almost all the way.

    Why well if you keep your live PEAK, it copes with chemo easily and bounces back fast. BETWEEN cycles. get it. when it starts to be hammered it cannot bounce back between cycles.

    This is based on what my PHD blood bank researcher firend explained and I have adopted it to my treatment. I did whatever I could to get my liver firing as well as possible.

    we never know what is around the corner. our livers have to last a life time. whatever that is.

    hugs,
    pete
  • SisterSledge
    SisterSledge Member Posts: 332 Member

    sorry but maybe just a little crazy
    hi janine

    being upside down here i have a different perspective. ie the other side of the planet.

    did the vege juicing beetroot celery etc almost daily depending diarrhea
    all through chemo.

    did milk thistle off chemo days, but again from DX.

    the goal to maintain PEAK liver function, to this end stopped eating all processed foods.
    cut down on red meat, followed bowel and liver bible.

    The goal PEAK liver function all the way through, and I almost made it. bloods were great almost all the way.

    Why well if you keep your live PEAK, it copes with chemo easily and bounces back fast. BETWEEN cycles. get it. when it starts to be hammered it cannot bounce back between cycles.

    This is based on what my PHD blood bank researcher firend explained and I have adopted it to my treatment. I did whatever I could to get my liver firing as well as possible.

    we never know what is around the corner. our livers have to last a life time. whatever that is.

    hugs,
    pete

    Thanks Pete
    I am juicing fruit/carrots once per day, my blood numbers are pretty good and I take a few supplements too. I'll look into milk thistle more, probably just some of the days between chemo treatments.

    ~hugs~
    Janine
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member

    Thanks Pete
    I am juicing fruit/carrots once per day, my blood numbers are pretty good and I take a few supplements too. I'll look into milk thistle more, probably just some of the days between chemo treatments.

    ~hugs~
    Janine

    just in case
    hi janine,

    from the healthy liver and bowel book by sandra cabot page 169 liver purifier juice
    2 large spinach leaves
    3 broccoli flowerets
    1-2 gloves garlic
    1 green pepper
    1 cup parsley top, chopped
    1 read apple, seeded
    pass all through a juicer, you can add liver tonic to this, hiugh in vitamin C and sulphur compouinds to cleanse the liver.

    Ps I add spirulina to the juice to boost interferon as "it regulates immune cells and their defensive capability" page 141

    Thanks for asking your post, as its made me read my liver bible, its like the real bible the more you read it, the more you learn.

    also for page 98 "the reason why all or some of these enzymes become elevated in cases of liver disease is that they are normally contained inside the liver cells ( hepatocytes ). They only leak into the blood sream when the liver cells are damaged. Thus measuring liver enzymes is only able to detect liver damage and does not measure liver function in a sensitive way."

    Also falling serum albumins shows a deteriorating liver function.

    so I am in the process of ordering a functional test of my liver.

    hugs,
    Pete
  • Kathleen808
    Kathleen808 Member Posts: 2,342 Member
    Gotta share
    Ok,
    This is pretty funny. I wanted to find the article by Dr. Lenz about Milk Thistle and I googled, "Dr. Lenz c3 milk thistle" and my post from January 1, 2010 pops up. LOL!!

    Here is a copy of my post.

    Hi,
    I was just on Dr. Lenz's (USC) site C3 and saw this article on milk thistle protecting the liver. I know that there are folks in our community who are battling cancer in their livers or whose livers have taken quite a hit from chemo.
    Here's a link, hope it can help. (You may have to cut and paste the address)

    http://fightcolorectalcancer.org/dr_lenz/2009/12/milk_thistle_a_way_to_protect_against_liver_damage

    Aloha,
    Kathleen
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member

    Gotta share
    Ok,
    This is pretty funny. I wanted to find the article by Dr. Lenz about Milk Thistle and I googled, "Dr. Lenz c3 milk thistle" and my post from January 1, 2010 pops up. LOL!!

    Here is a copy of my post.

    Hi,
    I was just on Dr. Lenz's (USC) site C3 and saw this article on milk thistle protecting the liver. I know that there are folks in our community who are battling cancer in their livers or whose livers have taken quite a hit from chemo.
    Here's a link, hope it can help. (You may have to cut and paste the address)

    http://fightcolorectalcancer.org/dr_lenz/2009/12/milk_thistle_a_way_to_protect_against_liver_damage

    Aloha,
    Kathleen

    what a great onc
    kathleen you were a liver guru and you did not even know it!!!
    how funny is that and lucky for us.
    its a really good article and even the comment about vitamin b6 and 5fu.

    all these treatment tips sitting in the treasure basket, locked away. gee we almost lost the ke as well.

    thanks for sharing, thanks for making the post originally, thanks for finding again and posting it.

    We need to write a book the csn colorectal guide to beating cancer tips and traps. Now that would be fun, any takers ?

    pete
  • herdizziness
    herdizziness Member Posts: 3,624 Member
    Milk Thistle
    Well, I might actually ask my onc if I can take something like milk thistle.
    Winter Marie
  • Buckwirth
    Buckwirth Member Posts: 1,258 Member

    Gotta share
    Ok,
    This is pretty funny. I wanted to find the article by Dr. Lenz about Milk Thistle and I googled, "Dr. Lenz c3 milk thistle" and my post from January 1, 2010 pops up. LOL!!

    Here is a copy of my post.

    Hi,
    I was just on Dr. Lenz's (USC) site C3 and saw this article on milk thistle protecting the liver. I know that there are folks in our community who are battling cancer in their livers or whose livers have taken quite a hit from chemo.
    Here's a link, hope it can help. (You may have to cut and paste the address)

    http://fightcolorectalcancer.org/dr_lenz/2009/12/milk_thistle_a_way_to_protect_against_liver_damage

    Aloha,
    Kathleen

    Link
    > Lenz on Milk Thistle
  • Kathleen808
    Kathleen808 Member Posts: 2,342 Member
    Buckwirth said:
    thanks
    Thanks Buckwirth!

    Kathleen
  • Scambuster
    Scambuster Member Posts: 973

    Thanks Pete
    I am juicing fruit/carrots once per day, my blood numbers are pretty good and I take a few supplements too. I'll look into milk thistle more, probably just some of the days between chemo treatments.

    ~hugs~
    Janine

    Hi GI
    Hi Janine,

    While Juicing is great, carrot juice has very high GI (Glycemic Index) so while carrots in raw whole form are fine in any quantity, you may wish to vary the veges you juice and limit Carrot juice to smaller amount or 2-3 time a week. Adding bright colored veges, parsley, bitter melon and wheatgrass are just a few good additions.

    The Silymarin is very good stuff as the data shows. Not known to actually be too effective with Cancer of the liver but for is excellent for reparing damaged livers.

    As for detox, not sure how CR people go (I had Throat C) but after 2 week in hospital with surgery and all the pain meds (incl Morphine), anesthetic and other drugs I was a mess and totally toxic. I could feel I was toxic. I was badly constipated. I kept asking the doctors and nurses about getting a colonic flush/irrigation. They all hissed and spat at the suggestion and said I could die. I mean 4 Doctors and half a dozen nurses.

    I eventually got discharged from hospital (approx 10 days in) in vey bad shape. My 2 brothers carried me out, one on each shoulder. The day before I had tracked down a colonics clinic (in HK) checked it was bonafide etc and we went straight from the hospital to the clinic. I had a 45 minute open colonic irrigation.

    When it was over, I walked out upright, very weak and light headed but felt a new clearness and lightness. After a light meal and 2 hours I was a jumping bean. The result was remarkable to say the least. Remember I was carried in to the clinic, and walked out.

    We trap toxins in the colon and just reabsorb them so it is a vicious cycle. Please note this procedure does carry risks (Perforations) and must be done by professional people. It's not for everyone but worth consideration post Chemo / Surgery depending of course the location of your surgery and this maybe isn't the best board to post this information on but some may be able to benefit to someone here.

    The more we know, the better.

    Best to all
    Scambuster
  • SisterSledge
    SisterSledge Member Posts: 332 Member

    Hi GI
    Hi Janine,

    While Juicing is great, carrot juice has very high GI (Glycemic Index) so while carrots in raw whole form are fine in any quantity, you may wish to vary the veges you juice and limit Carrot juice to smaller amount or 2-3 time a week. Adding bright colored veges, parsley, bitter melon and wheatgrass are just a few good additions.

    The Silymarin is very good stuff as the data shows. Not known to actually be too effective with Cancer of the liver but for is excellent for reparing damaged livers.

    As for detox, not sure how CR people go (I had Throat C) but after 2 week in hospital with surgery and all the pain meds (incl Morphine), anesthetic and other drugs I was a mess and totally toxic. I could feel I was toxic. I was badly constipated. I kept asking the doctors and nurses about getting a colonic flush/irrigation. They all hissed and spat at the suggestion and said I could die. I mean 4 Doctors and half a dozen nurses.

    I eventually got discharged from hospital (approx 10 days in) in vey bad shape. My 2 brothers carried me out, one on each shoulder. The day before I had tracked down a colonics clinic (in HK) checked it was bonafide etc and we went straight from the hospital to the clinic. I had a 45 minute open colonic irrigation.

    When it was over, I walked out upright, very weak and light headed but felt a new clearness and lightness. After a light meal and 2 hours I was a jumping bean. The result was remarkable to say the least. Remember I was carried in to the clinic, and walked out.

    We trap toxins in the colon and just reabsorb them so it is a vicious cycle. Please note this procedure does carry risks (Perforations) and must be done by professional people. It's not for everyone but worth consideration post Chemo / Surgery depending of course the location of your surgery and this maybe isn't the best board to post this information on but some may be able to benefit to someone here.

    The more we know, the better.

    Best to all
    Scambuster

    I had no clue about the carrot juice = high GI
    Thank you for the info, I'll vary my juice more...but so far I haven't found any other veggies I can stand the taste of :(

    And I'm convinced on the milk thistle. I'll get some next week :)

    Thanks again,
    Janine